Discussion: Informal poll regarding O meet scheduling

I'd like to gauge peoples' opinion regarding O-meet scheduling. This is not a scientific survey - I'd love to hear your off the cuff comments.

* What do people think about multi-day O festivals in NA? In the US? Do you prefer them? Or are single weekends better?
* Would you be more inclined to attend a week long event than visit discrete events on contiguous weekends?
* Does it matter if they are championships?
* Would you attend championships during the middle of the week?
* When should they be scheduled? For this, I'm espcially interested in the multi-day events. Spring, summer, or fall? A particular time during these seasons?
* And if summer, do you think it makes a difference where the events are to be held? Would you attend a summer mult-day in Florida, in Pennsylvania, or in Wyoming? In other words, how important is climate?

It is a lot easier to get zero or one days off than five for most people, so I think weekend events will remain the norm. But my personal preference would be to see the US champs turned into a multi-day festival (as was done this year and will be done next year) more often. In particular, in 2000 the North Americans - midweek events - US Champs model worked well. I would like to see it to be the norm to hold the US Individual Champs on a neighboring weekend to a different championship (NA when relevant / US short course / US long course - something).

I think holding major O events in the spring or fall is fairer than holding them in the summer. It is very difficult to train for orienteering in the summer in much of the country. If you didn't go to Europe, to Colorado or to the beginning of PNWOF, then the US champs was your first race since May. It's also unfortunate that the summer leads to conflicts with the WOC and with major European events. For that reason I think it's preferable to have the US champs in spring or fall.

I personally now choose O events based either on the field expected or on how much fun they're going to be. I might go to PA (probably not FL) in summer, but only because the field was guaranteed to be good. Since that's unlikely, I think you might be better off not holding major meets in the summer except for the reason that the climate is too difficult otherwise.

Like willhawk I choose races based on the field and fun factor. A bunch of 2-day classic total time championships strapped together over a week and called a festival or 6-day is not as interesting to me as a weekend like next year's BC Champs will be or the Billygoat was last year or (of course) next year's NAOC weekend. ;-) Next weekend's sprint finals and mega course is the event I have been looking most forward to in 2005.

I prefer orienteering in the spring and autumn and believe this is when the championship races should be for the same reason that willhawk mentioned. I was hanging ribbons for next year's NAOC's today. The woods were fine but it was humid and hot. In 6 weeks the woods will be 1-2 min/km faster and it will be cooler - which is better for a championship race (orienteering in Ontario in the summer isn't the best - hot, humid, buggy and often thick).

Having said that it would be great to develop a a big annual/biannual Canadian/American/North American? 5 or 6-day in the summer that focusses on decent orienteering surrounded by great BBQ/banquet opps, tourism, and O variety. There has been some recent discussion about this in Canada. My feeling is that when a week long festival includes championship races you don't get that family/holiday/party atmosphere that you do in Europe because you are always prepping or recovering from an 'important race' which leaves less time for tourism, chillin' etc I also think that we are over championshipped out - COC, NAOC, WCOC, Ontario Champs, ECOC, and the multitude of US classic, short, long, hairy, night, inter this and inter that championship (and their regional editions) events.

I like the concept of weeklong O festivals that focus on fun, low-key events, and keeping champs events to single weekends.

The issue of when is complicated by the fact that North America is a much bigger place than Europe. I think champs events should be toward the end of the season, which for us in the northeast would be in the fall, but that doesn't necessarily hold for other areas.

So with my regional bias, I'd like to see weeklong festivals without major champs in the summer when travel is not complicated by school schedules, and major champs events from Sept through November - but I prefer running in cool weather anyway...

my 2 cents...

Very interesting questions there Jman...
I will have to agree with Hammer that Summer Festivals are way more fun when there is no important race in it. That is one of the reasons why I like Colorado/Wyoming events so much. We all sit around campsites at night, stay up late and sip some wine. Sometimes too much, and that's why they have to bag maps, to make sure you have a motion-sickness apparatus with you.
As for National Champs and that kind of event, I really think that they should be in the Fall, it only makes sense. I never understood National Champs as a season opener. And usually, the climate is nicer anyway, and so are the woods.
Now when it comes to travel to events, it doesn't matter to me what's at stake. I just like nice maps, good organisation, and a strong field of women, which is pretty rare. So when there is one like that, I obviously try to go, as long as funds allow.
I am sure I am missing a bunch of answers, but I am too lazy to scroll back up to see what the questions were, so that will have to do ;-)

Not being close to things, I like to get the most bang for my buck. So I prefer multi-days with Championships and Board meetings all in one. Right now my travel schedule is basically tied to when the Board meetings are. Other than that I make it to the one or two A-meets in my region.

I'm much more likely to attend events with mid-week stuff included than to travel on two consecutive weekends. In that case I would probably just pick one weekend to attend. At PNWOF, I skipped the Western States, but did the mid-week events in Bend.

Summer is best - primarily because for a multi-day it makes it easier to bring Juniors with you. The girls who travel with me have only done so during the summer.

Climate - I don't mind hot weather, so it probably wouldn't matter too much. I actually had a really nice time last year at the convention activities in Georgia. I might have second thoughts about something that was sure to be cold and rainy.

Now putting on my VP Competition hat:
I'd like to see more of the Championships packaged into multi-day events. I think it would help to attract larger fields and increase the prestige of our Championships if we had fewer such events, but with more Championship races at each event. I think holding 3 or 4 day events around a single weekend might work best for this. That way people don't have to take a full week off of work.

I also really like the annual convention and am disappointed that these have become less common. I think it fills the need for that low-key festival that Hammer likes.

To reiterate what smittyo said: If you want juniors to attend, it helps to not schedule multi-day events during the school year! Otherwise, I like the fall for championships like US and Long/Short, but you can't schedule every championship event in the fall.

We like attending the multi-day events (Colorado 5-day; RM1000Day; PNWOF; etc.) in the summer. I don't think I'd enjoy Florida (or anyplace in the southeast) in the summer, though, as the humidity level is wicked, something I think kept people away from Georgia. I think Maine would be fine, though. :-)

Did any of you guys (Canucks or others) attend the 2002 APOC extravaganza? I think that was in July and featured the COCs, the NAOCs, and APOC all in one week. The APOC championships were actually in the middle of the week. It seems like this configuration is different from the ideal a lot of people have suggested.

Does anyone have any comments on this model? Do you why the organizers decided to do it this way?

2002 APOC was unbearably hot - 90-100 all week - with quite a bit of thick veg. That experience helped keep us away this year for the WMOC though I understand it was much cooler. An event like the 1000 Day and its' variations is a success with its' low key atmosphere and good courses. It is unfortunate that US Champs are to be included next year changing the focus of the long week. Also that will be two years in a row with the Champs in the summer.

My preference would be for the Champs in later fall and the Long-O in mid spring. The champs could then occur after the fall season of preparation and the Long-O preparation could also include training for the Billygoat with long runs during the winter, when getting into the woods can be much more difficult in places. Holding major events like champs during the summer could be difficult in highly vegetated areas of the east and should probably be avoided. Also the heat, humidity and bugs make this timing less attractive. Scheduling major events during the summer also conflicts with European multi-day events and the WOC, JWOC events.

Given the multitude of championships put on by USOF, I would prefer to see them consolidated into a week-long event that pretty much every top orienteer in the US would attend rather than scattered throughout the year/country. This is the format used by most major sports that have multiple disciplines (Cycling, Swimming, Track & Field, to name a few).

Other than that, I like the weekend format for races. Taking a full week off for racing is hard to justify (this is on the homefront - my employer doesn't care).

I do like the idea of the summer meets such as the Thousand Day. I've tried to get to that one twice, only to be foiled by last minute developments. Those meets sound more like a regular vacation with some racing sprinkled in. I agree with the sentiment that adding US Champs to that mix may change that feel and not necessarily for the better. Still, I hope to give it a go next year.

Sweden's Championship week is coming up, with all the major races (Classic, Middle, Night, and Relay - they don't think of sprints as 'real' orienteering) with in a week, and it certainly generates a ton of buzz ahead of time. Seems like a good format.

Being a teacher, I'm in the same boat as the kids. It would be impossible for me to attend weeklong events during the fall, winter or spring. I like the weeklong "festival" events during the summer and the long-weekend events otherwise.

I haven't really been paying attention to this over the past few years, but I just did a search.

At least in Canada, over the past five years, most Canadian Championships have been in the summer and part of a multi-day. My research indicates (correct me if I'm wrong):

August 26-27, 2000 (multi-day, New Brunswick)
October 6-8, 2001 (Manitoba)
July 6-14, 2002 (multi-day, APOC, Alberta)
August 16-24, 2003 (multi-day, BC)
Mid July 2004 (multi-day?, Yukon)
Mid July 2005 (BC)

But, this seems contrary to what some have suggested desirable. I have to admit that abstractly I thought holding these is the summer is good for a number of reasons - you can attract international groups if you package it well and importantly, if scheduled approporately, provide an exciting event for the high school and college up and comers. I'd think they would be able to make a week in August than a week in October - although I guess anyone can make a weekend in October, but that kind of defeats the aims of the multi-day.

Thoughts?

With the exception of 2001, the Canadian Championships have been held in the summer every year since 1978 (when they were held at Hilton Falls at Canadian Thanksgiving). All other major events in Canada (WMOC x 1, APOC x2, NAOC x7, World Cup x3) have also been held in the summer since 1978 with the exception of the World Cups held in Ontario (Dundas Valley, May 1986; Ganaraska, October 1992).

Summer in the Yukon is a lot different from summer in much of the US.

Wyoming doesn't even have summer. It just has less winter for a few months instead.

St. Louis has it's own summer and most of what Wyoming doesn't want as well. Chuck Ferguson used an ONA column to try and goad us into hosting the USOF convention a few years back. We didn't bite. I expect the attendance at a week-long summer meet in St. Louis would be somewhere in the low double digits.

Of course, to really find out who the nuts are, we'd have to get Tom to put on a July event in Texas.

* What do people think about multi-day O festivals in NA? In the US? Do you prefer them? Or are single weekends better?

I like the mix we have now -- some multi day events, some weekends.

* Would you be more inclined to attend a week long event than visit discrete events on contiguous weekends?

I'm less inclined to do the weeklong events. Mostly that is because it is a little harder for me to get away for a week. I like 3-day events built around a weekend.

* Does it matter if they are championships?

No.

* Would you attend championships during the middle of the week?

Maybe.

* When should they be scheduled? For this, I'm espcially interested in the multi-day events. Spring, summer, or fall? A particular time during these seasons?

It makes no difference for me.

I think it is a good thing that we have championships at different times of the year. The training conditions are so different depending on where you live, so there is no ideal time for everyone. Having championships at different times means that everyone will eventually get a championship event that best suits their circumstances.

* And if summer, do you think it makes a difference where the events are to be held? Would you attend a summer mult-day in Florida, in Pennsylvania, or in Wyoming? In other words, how important is climate?

I avoid running in the heat as much as possible.

Texas doesn't have winter, we gave it to Wyoming. However, we do have a season called Super-summer. The seasons go: spring, summer, super-summer, summer, fall, spring...

We could have a summer Mall-O festival in TX. We have lots of super-sized malls and they all have good AC... and ice-rinks. I'd need an OCAD symbol for an icy area.

Us juniors, from New-Brunswick, we always have to travel far for big meets. We usually do 2 meets in the spring that are weekend events and same goes for the fall. For those we either fly or drive for hours. During school year, it's great to have big meets held on the weekend but it would be even greater if they were closer to home. But since they are not, I would prefer the week long event format (biggest bang for the buck) to make the travel worth it's while.

In the Yukon the seasons go winter, still winter, still winter, still winter, su.., almost winter, winter...
But seriously folks - there never will be any single answer and certainly never any 'best' answer re. scheduling if only because there is no single, overriding "factor" (or hierarchy of factors) we are supposed to base things on. For example is it more important that the leaves are off so that the forest is more runnable; or is it more important that families and/or school kids can get to the event? Look at 2006 for example - Canada will have its COC week in August, but the NAOC will be separate - in October. Both have pros and cons, and I have not yet decided which to go to (if unable to make both).

I have a very small sample of life in the Yukon, but I recall it being beastly hot. Somewhere in the 90s in Whitehorse. Of course that was in su.

I think the correct seasons for Canada would be almost winter, winter, still winter, and construction.

Here in Los Angeles we have two seasons - Fire and Flood.

I guess 'Plague of frogs' comes after those two.

No, I actually saw a T-shirt about this once. LA has four seasons: Fire, flood, riot, and earthquake.

It's Plague-o-frogs at Pawtuckaway right now. Which is not a bad thing.

Oh yeah and you'll want to rent those special shoes so you don't injure any of those Fremont Frogs. $500 fine if you kill one of them......................

The venues for O meets should follow the seasons. Wherever it is 50F at night 75F day and below 50% humidity, that's the place .

Steve, your T-shirt was wrong. Riots and earthquakes occur year-round, so it would be wrong to call that a "season"