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Attackpoint - performance and training tools for orienteering athletes

Discussion: Z3

in: Hermes; Hermes > 2015-12-03

Dec 4, 2015 10:45 PM # 
Carbon's Offset:
I think that's pretty normal to find Z3 the toughest to sustain; I've experienced that in our spin class. I think Z4 can feel easier to hold because it is a more focused push, if that makes sense.
The goal is to get to a point where you feel like you recover in E3 and can hold it all day. I think you get there through drills where you push Z4 or higher and then switch to Z3 and hold it until you feel like you have got your breathing and heart rate under control. Then you can take a rest at Z2 or Z1, then repeat the Z4 and Z3 combo. As you improve, you should feel recovered earlier in the Z3 portion.
Dec 5, 2015 2:13 AM # 
coach ld:
Kind of depends on your definition/criteria for "zone 3" or 4 or whatever. Is it based on actual heart rate? or perceived effort? In xc ski training the zones have very specific heart rates, and are based on percentages of the athlete's max. It seems like on AP it is a rough scale of level of effort. Much xc ski training is done purposely in zone 1, which rarely gets listed here, and zone 3 is considered high intensity until an elite skier is very well-trained and is actually fit enough to get into zone 4 without sacrificing technqiue - ie. racing.
Dec 5, 2015 12:56 PM # 
I agree, CO. Which is why I must do the dirty intervals! :(

I do use my heart rate to match my zones but I have only found my zones based on the simple equation. Generally, Z4 is when I am tasting blood - intervals/hills or a short running race.

I would say that I do much of my activities in Z2. This convo has now become too sciencey!!

Thanks for the insight. :)
Dec 5, 2015 3:23 PM # 
Carbon's Offset:
Convo is too sciency? Coach ld and I are loving it. It's become too sciency for *you* ;). C'mon, "geek up" with the rest of us!
Dec 10, 2015 2:28 AM # 
coach ld:
Stay out of zone 2 - if by zone 2 you mean the kind that is based on percentage of max heart rate (according to the nordic types anyway). Zone 1 for recovery and base mileage, zone 3 for "work' like intervals. speed etc. and zone 4 for time trials, races , and technique work for racing. So I've heard. Maybe the other "geek" has heard otherwise. Tasting blood is probably as good guide as any - seems to be working for you at least.
BTW - hilarious that you think I'm "sciency"!! Goose would laugh for sure.
Dec 10, 2015 11:37 AM # 
Thanks for your wonderful insight, coach!!

I was doing intervals in what I thought was zone 4. Typically I get that blood taste when I do intervals and toward the peak of a hill repeat. I guess I thought intervals and shorter races would have the same effort?

Haha is that the same as when my students think I'm "awesome"?! Sigh...
Dec 10, 2015 3:23 PM # 
Depending on the purpose and length of your intervals, they could be anywhere from Z3 to Z5. Most intervals are not super hard since you want to maintain pace and technique throughout - and sometimes the goal of an interval is to maintain "marathon pace" or whatever.

For people doing HR training with a GPS watch, Attackpoint can import the data and show you how much time you spent in each HR zone. You can see this on Harps' log.
Dec 10, 2015 7:07 PM # 
My husband has yet to let me down!
Dec 10, 2015 7:57 PM # 
One widely used system (running-specific, not HR-based) is Jack Daniels' Vdot calculator, which is on AP.

Enter your time for some race distance you did recently (road 10K or half marathon would be good), then click on Training to find out recommended paces for various types of workouts, including different types of intervals. Click on the workout types to get an explanation of what Daniels means by each one as well as its purpose. These paces aren't designed for trail running, skiing or our other sports but it gives you an idea of the range of training paces that can provide benefit.

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