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Attackpoint - performance and training tools for orienteering athletes

Discussion: sounds

in: blairtrewin; blairtrewin > 2015-12-06

Dec 6, 2015 8:00 AM # 
pretty standard for an OA conference.

Are we any closer to having a digital Aust Orineteer so we aren't wasting $1000s on printing each year?
Dec 6, 2015 8:50 AM # 
We are, actually. We've set up a working group to investigate what's involved - if that group comes back with a favourable result we'll probably go digital in 2017 (possibly with the option for people to subscribe to a paper copy at additional cost).
Dec 6, 2015 9:03 AM # 
Sweet. A working group to create a PDF ;)
Dec 6, 2015 9:45 AM # 
Even I have run that part of the circumcision track a number of times, and I have never lived in Canberra.
Dec 6, 2015 10:54 PM # 
The run would have been rather more social if I wasn't so far behind when ascending every hill!

I don't think we (OA Board) went into the conference expecting a lot of decisions to be made; rather it was about pre-empting alternate ways of doing some aspects of our operations - and canvassing preliminary opinions from states about the advantages & disadvantages thereof?
Dec 7, 2015 12:49 AM # 
Not quite as simple as creating a PDF (although creating a PDF that doesn't take a non-NBN person two days to download is part of the question). Only about half of the costs of the magazine are printing and distribution, so if you get rid of the physical copies the remaining costs still need to be funded from somewhere.
Dec 7, 2015 1:32 AM # 
Yeah for sure, just being a smart arse!
Dec 7, 2015 1:34 AM # 
Any discussion about the mid January response for the next ISOM?
Dec 7, 2015 3:19 AM # 
So how can orienteering benefit from parkrun's success plan:
-Every event is free
-Hold all events in the same place
-Make sure it's near a coffee shop
-The course is the same from week to week
-Get a major sponsor to pay for start-up equipment
-Get rid of maps
Dec 7, 2015 4:59 AM # 
Safety volunteers on every turn
Witches hats to show the way
Dec 8, 2015 1:54 AM # 
Embrace social media.
Dec 8, 2015 1:57 AM # 
I thought we did that already.
Dec 8, 2015 2:26 AM # 
Obviously there's a lot of the parkrun model that isn't easily transferable, but there's some which is - especially their communications (results e-mail to every participant the same day, for instance) which seems to really help in engaging participation. While we obviously wouldn't want to use the same venues every week, I think there's also potential value in park/street series clustering venues over a period of time - so, using a Canberra example, instead of jumping semi-randomly back and forth between different parts of the city, you might run events for four weeks in Tuggeranong, four weeks in Belconnen, four weeks in Woden and so on. I also think having events near suitable places for post-event refreshment is definitely to be recommended :-)
Dec 8, 2015 2:39 AM # 
Bendigo started its Saturday series by running four or five events in a row on the same map before shifting to a new map. The club only had five maps then. Not sure it helped newcomers feel more secure and comfortable, but I certainly felt creeping boredom.
Dec 8, 2015 3:11 AM # 
It's fair to say that the summer series run in london might have got some inspiration from parkrun:

Agree with Blair there's a lot that isn't transferable but some of the things we did in London seemed to work.

- same format every week (2 courses, main one 5k, then a 2.5k - most people run the 5k)
- accessible for newcomers (pretty much everyone runs the same course whether old timer or new)
- social aspect (registration in a pub)
- one website, and results emails sent out

they're held in parks but accessible by public transport (big thing in london, maybe not elsewhere) - and generally within half an hour of the city.

Similar format could almost certainly work in Melbourne (Melbusho/ sprint into spring aren't that disimilar) on a weekday evening.

Interesting idea about the same map - I mooted this as idea to a couple of folks in BigFoot, e.g. you could do it to soem extent as a training exercise with a different course each week. I think different venues do work though - but being part of a league helps.
Dec 8, 2015 6:12 AM # 
Uncle JiM:
With a little planning, you can get 2-3 or more races from the same venue, and run in a different area each week. They do this all the time at Multi days, so why not weekend to weekend
Dec 8, 2015 6:17 AM # 
Uncle JiM:
Hey Lazy, is this the sort of thing you want to see?
Dec 8, 2015 6:38 AM # 
We attempted this a few years back with our Metro Series:

I think there's also potential value in park/street series clustering venues over a period of time

I don't know if it was successful in retaining people from week to week but it disappeared after one year because our series coordinator (you probably know him, some old guy by the name of Simmo) just stopped doing it. I think at the time it was still the same people turning up week to week as had been doing for years.

We do sometimes get the query from newcomers though "When is your next one?" "Next week, but it's on the other side of the city." "Oh well, I might come back when you have another one here."

Doesn't really help when newcomers only want to go to events near their house because that disadvantages people elsewhere and with a population centre as small as Perth, well we have to spread them around.
Dec 8, 2015 6:42 AM # 
Sure is Jim.
Dec 8, 2015 9:20 AM # 
'Simmo just stopped doing it' - tRicky stopped making maps of suitable neighbouring areas is more like it:)

Seriously, we tried having street events in neighbouring suburbs 2-4 weeks in a row in 2013/14. There was some continuity during the first 3 events, all in the Southern suburbs, but those people disappeared when the focus switched to the Eastern and Northern suburbs. Perth is such a huge geographical area that the concept couldn't really work for more than a few weeks at a time, but it might work in Canberra. If we had daylight saving, then we could go the Melbourne way with regional series on different nights of the week, but unfortunately Perth is destined to stay in the dark ages for years to come.
Dec 8, 2015 9:34 AM # 
For about 3-4 years now, over summer, Sydney have been holding basically promo series in "outer" suburbia (I might get howled down for describing it as such). So there was, and continues, a Sydney South and a Western Sydney series in addition to the hugely popular Wednesday night Summer Series that flits from place to place. There has been some move over from the fledgling series but what seems to happen is that the tragics (now ducks for cover) go to these series (a good thing) but the transfer over is not outweighing the additional effort in putting on these additional events. There has been some repeat business - people coming to the same series on successive years - usually on home turf.
But the biggest negative is the vol energy used for very few people - it takes the same amount of effort for 14 people as 40 as 80. It could be a good vehicle for beginning course setters, but often it is the same people offering/being coerced as course setters.
Dec 8, 2015 9:43 AM # 
Our club did a promotion at Callaghan Parkrun about 3 weeks ago:
Pitch was Parkrun + a little thinking = Orienteering.
Target: convert parkrunners
Manner: as it is a smallish parkrun I was 'known" so a recognisable person.
Enticement: free entry to Summer series events including SI stick hire.
Hook: did promo the Saturday before our Wednesday event which was fairly close - next suburb so knew where to go.

Of the 6 Free entry vouchers taken 4 were presented the next week. Still valid and a return event this week to another adjacent suburb - so possibly???
Of the 4 who came 2 have joined club at second event attended.

What we think works - make the link between the two sports. We are held at different times so we aren't kidnapping people and for Summer Series the distances and times are similar. Then we work on them through a Park Series next February and then Bush awaits.
Dec 8, 2015 11:01 AM # 
Carolyn, presumably the reason for putting on the outer-suburban Sydney series (plural) is/was in order to make use of the participation funding from ASC? What you say about the negatives is important though; on the one hand it's been wonderful to be offered extra funds with which to grow our sport but on the other hand it's been a strain on volunteers who are already working fairly hard at putting on other events - we've noticed that in SA also. Having said this, there are a number of families now in our schools' team, who originally came along to the Junior&Newcomer series about 4 years ago, so it does pay off.
Dec 8, 2015 11:28 AM # 
Yep, being able to access parkrun facebook sites to promote O local events is of great value.
Dec 9, 2015 12:51 AM # 
Jenny - yes to application and receiving of funding. And I am very much of the idea to "keep putting our collective heads up" and we will get some takers. You must be thrilled with the carryover into schools - a real positive. I think varied approaches is the key and listening to the "locals" is very important eg what might work in Sydney may not work on North Coast or Newcastle.
But the overriding consensus is that making a personal approach and connection is a big part in retaining people. We don't harass them but we make sure someone says hello (and checks on runners after their run) and when in bush season emails them mid week after event (when results published). We've had feedback that this was the main reason (external to the actual physical part) that tipped them over to return.
We mightn't get dozens of new members but we seem to get a solid return on our investment.
Dec 9, 2015 2:00 AM # 
tRicky stopped making maps of suitable neighbouring areas is more like it:)

Hang on, who was it who told me recently to stop making maps around Thornlie because we had too many????? :-)

Seriously, we tried having street events in neighbouring suburbs 2-4 weeks in a row in 2013/14. There was some continuity during the first 3 events, all in the Southern suburbs, but those people disappeared when the focus switched to the Eastern and Northern suburbs.

Yeah that's kind of what I was hinting at in my post. It's fine for the committed people to travel but newcomers want to stick to their own area. Unfortunately we cannot have an entire series in one area of Perth because as I said above, it's unfair to the established regulars and we're not big enough to hold multiple series.

Also we can blame O-ing for WA not having daylight savings. He voted against it and then moved to a state that has it. Is that irony or just selfish?
Dec 9, 2015 9:08 AM # 
Not very irony at all bromine – where is this lead-ing. We could argon on and on, but we’re being moly-coddled with extra radon. I zinc we hafnium enough-ium daylight already. You silicon, watch out before you copper barium arsenic: Na boron.
Dec 9, 2015 9:23 AM # 
It's great to see you two have such good chemistry.
Dec 10, 2015 2:50 AM # 
At least our discussions don't get physicsal. We could build up momentum and accelerate through time and space. This way it's relativity benign and doesn't gravitate towards quantum fisticuffs.
Dec 10, 2015 4:27 AM # 
It's great to see there's not much friction between you two.
Dec 10, 2015 4:46 AM # 
As long as there is no heat exchange. We don't want any shocks. I shall have to ground you if that was the case.

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