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Discussion: where is the SLU indoor tra...

in: matzah ball; matzah ball > 2016-01-12

Jan 12, 2016 6:26 PM # 
where is the SLU indoor track? what is it like? I'm jealous you got to workout indoors. !
Jan 12, 2016 6:59 PM # 
matzah ball:
Simon Recreation Center (Laclede) on the SLU campus. I already said what it was like pretty much, any specific questions? 7 laps per mile is better than the usual Y squirrel cages of 19 or 11 laps per mile, but not really good for longer intervals because of the rounded off square corners

I think I got the 'Senior Pass' on this one, the others did some fast 200's outdoors in very windy conditions - which I would not have minded since it was still 'warm' and there were some really good local runners out there, but I'm glad I got to check out the indoors facility.
Jan 12, 2016 9:48 PM # 
this is the workout led by Coach Bradley, with all the fast SLU college kids?
Jan 12, 2016 10:58 PM # 
matzah ball:
yes, Bradley, no SLU kids.
Jan 13, 2016 5:09 PM # 
so they just happened to be working out same time?
Jan 14, 2016 9:43 PM # 
speaking of kids running, Billy's "social running club" workout was 8x400m, top group starting at 68 down to 62. he made the 68, 68, 66,66, 64, 63 . . . then missed the next two at 68, 64. which I guess shows it was a challenging workout.
Jan 14, 2016 11:54 PM # 
matzah ball:
how much rest?
Jan 15, 2016 3:52 AM # 
I'll ask but I'm assuming more of a JD "I" workout, ie Interval, with short rest, than an R with complete rest. I've seen Petter work them before and they don't sit around a lot. Lucas sat out due to not running prior three days (the presumptive anchor of the 4x8, and returning 2nd best time in the state Class 4 at 1:56) . . .
Jan 15, 2016 3:53 AM # 
I got a chuckle when he said he missed the 7th rep because he ran a 63 on the 6th rep instead of the prescribed 64. haha. so pro already! they have paces dialed in already. a second is huge in the 400 . . . I guess, like I would know! haha.
Jan 15, 2016 10:41 AM # 
matzah ball:
good for them. does he have a recent time in a stand alone 400? Whats a good indicator of sub 2 min speed for the 800, a 54 second 400?
Jan 15, 2016 12:51 PM # 
I'm pretty sure the normal log-linear prediction model breaks down between 800 and 400 (as it does between marathon and 50 miles on the other end). The range of that predictor is basically from where alactic anaerobic respiration drops (around 20 seconds) and eccentric contraction fatigue sets in (around 2.5 hours). Outside of that range, different factors come into play that hurt the correlation. The 400 is nearly half alactic, so that component becomes dominant. There are many very good 400 runners that can't run an 800 worth crap and vice-versa. There simply isn't any link between sprinting and distance ability; some can do both, some can do neither, most are way better at one than the other.

That said, for runners who do not have extremely dominant alactic capabilities, the rule may still hold. In that case, you would expect about a 20 s/mile difference for each doubling of distance or around 5s/400m. So, your 54 predictor is probably pretty good (since, even a kid with limited sprint ability should get SOME benefit from the alactic portion of the race).
Jan 15, 2016 3:57 PM # 
They jogged a lap between reps so likely 2:00 rest ?

It sounds like a good workout for the
3200 .. he
Missed state by one place last year so that is a goal ... needs probably to run in the 9:30 range ... from a 10:03 last year ... hhe's not really a 800 runner ... but hope to go sub2
Jan 15, 2016 6:23 PM # 
ps--he's never run a 400m in competition, that is "sprinter" territory. this year he will run the 32, then the 4x8. maybe get a time in the 1600 at a lesser meet.

however, . . . excuse the parent bragging . . . he has a nice kick at the end of a 3200m, last year in his conference win, he threw in a 66 on the final lap. that was great to see him open up like that. quite a thrill. yes, I live vicariously through my son's racing!
Jan 15, 2016 7:17 PM # 
matzah ball:
he might get a kick (ok, somewhat intended) out of a 400 TT, just for fun and see where he's at,, give him a benchmark and hopefully some confidence. Little energy expenditure for a one-lapper, esp. for a young person, so easy to fit in anytime.
Jan 15, 2016 8:30 PM # 
that brings back a memory . . . sometimes the 4x400 relay is reserved for the very last event of a meet, and by that time, many teams have gone home, dark out, traveling teams need to get home, etc. so it becomes a fun race, and teams throw in JV, throwers, distance guys, etc. last year at conference, we fielded a 4x4 where the 3rd leg was a hefty discus guy who had never run a 400m in competition in his life, and he did really well! along with some of the distance guys. so he may have the opportunity to actually run one of those this season, who knows!
Jan 16, 2016 11:39 PM # 
ps--I asked billy if he ever an a 400m for time and said no, but they might get together a B team of distance guys for the 4x4 this year just for fun. he did mention that in season the top group typically does 60 sec repeats of 400m . . . that is fast in my book! for high school kids, that is probably pretty good.

just looked up the MO class 4 state record is 46:xx set back in 2003. so those guys are probably cranking out 54s in training. It seems like in your typical local meet, you see times in the low 50s . . . 51, 52.

but again, there is a pretty sharp division between 400m and 800m, 400m being the longest sprint, and sprinters have different coaches, typically these are the football wide receivers and runnings backs. and the distance guys are the XC team with the XC coach, and 800m is the shortest distance they run.
Jan 17, 2016 3:20 AM # 
Roger Bannister, John Landee, and Wes Santee all regularly ran 400's @60 during the year all three were chasing the first sub-4 mile. Now it's a high school workout. Go figure.
Jan 17, 2016 10:11 AM # 
matzah ball:
i want to enroll in high school - think they'll accept me?
Jan 17, 2016 7:46 PM # 
we could audition for team mascot . . . !

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