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Attackpoint - performance and training tools for orienteering athletes

Discussion: SI AIR

in: BrandNewMe; BrandNewMe > 2016-02-01

Feb 1, 2016 10:12 PM # 
DaveR:
The system used in Perth was the Ski-O version - and was advertised as such. The Ski-O version has a bigger range than the "foot-O" version. It was the only touch-free we could use at that time.
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Feb 2, 2016 10:10 AM # 
andrewd:
Perhaps it's the kind of thing the start officials should be picking up on at check, and issuing a new card, I'll speak to Robin :)
Feb 2, 2016 10:14 AM # 
BrandNewMe:
The check at the start appeared to work though, cause the si card made the unit beep. If I was more familiar with the technology I'd have thought to have make sure the card beeped aswell.
Feb 2, 2016 10:28 AM # 
andrewd:
If there isn't a way to have a check for the air itself then there probably should be, this is why they are testing it at a lot of events...
Feb 2, 2016 1:00 PM # 
graeme:
You were (had to be) much closer than 1m at WOC. Your splits are credible, so I hope they reinstate you.
Feb 2, 2016 2:30 PM # 
BrandNewMe:
I don't really want to be reinstated - there is no proof I went there, and I am an adult, so can handle it. I just want a punching system that is fair, easy to understand and works consistently. At the British this year, I was told that if I wanted to get reinstated - although Jess saw me punching the control that didn't work - I would have to PROVE that the SI technology was faulty. How the hell was I supposed to do that??? Contrast that with the JK many moons ago when I got disqualified cause I was missing a control. The controller gave me my control card, and said that if I could make out the pin pattern of the control he would reinstate me. Fair enough. I could make out the admittedly faint pattern, and he reinstated me. I think the answer would be an emit system, where the back up card is divided into squares like a control card, so you can check that you have punched. Any competitor without a full emit backup card gets disqualified, regardless of what splits are held on the card. This would stop Marten Bostrom etc getting time advantages for using iffy punching technique too. An independent timing system would be needed, to guard against the times when emit bricks die in races (like I had at the scottish champs 2009 and 2012).
Feb 2, 2016 5:22 PM # 
Chas:
What's wrong with the original SI system?
The only time something quicker is needed is in a sprint relay.
Feb 2, 2016 9:02 PM # 
andrewd:
but if SI Air is only used for sprint relays, nobody would buy it, how do SI profit from it
Feb 2, 2016 10:01 PM # 
Nixon:
I used it for all the pre-running I did at WOC, and I think it's great and we should adopt it in all race, but as Claire says, as long is it is fair and simple and consistent.
Feb 2, 2016 10:24 PM # 
SIman:
You will get another chance to try SI Air+ at the Scottish Sprint Championships on Sunday. We will make sure you get one which has been tested!
Feb 2, 2016 10:56 PM # 
BrandNewMe:
Well we would be there but we have had a bit of an entries fail (kids vomiting all last week - orienteering wasn't foremost in our thoughts). We might chance it with EOD. Usually when we have an entries fail I can sweet talk the organiser, but ESOC are fairly immune to my charms. What can I say? Titting around finding and reading final details, worrying about whether I have punched controls or not, trying to decide whether or not injuries / illnesses will clear up in time to run a race (and boy have I wasted entry fees over the past few years by being too crocked to run) all detracts from the navigating-in-a-nice-forest aspect. Maybe I should just head to the Trossachs with a training map every weekend and forget about actual orienteering races. Then I would be guaranteed a good time and come back smiling each weekend.
Feb 3, 2016 10:09 AM # 
paw:
SI Air+ on Sunday? They've kept that quiet...it isn't even in the final details.

Hmmm, touch-free punching, plus stupidly early start time (2 mins after 1st start when I specified middle block on my entry). Think I might join you in the Trossachs Claire!
Feb 3, 2016 10:48 AM # 
BrandNewMe:
I must admit that part of what was putting me off entering was I was unsure from the final details how the scottish sprint champion was to be decided. The initial final details didn't say, and as someone who has done a couple of those UTTERLY HIDEOUS NOrT mass start sprint races, I had no intention of doing a chasing start sprint race. I did this race last year and only did the prolouge, not something I regretted.
Feb 3, 2016 5:31 PM # 
BrandNewMe:
I sort of agree with Charlie that the original SI is good, as long as all SI cards are the same speed, which they are not. But it doesn't always work, as seen in woc 2014 with Hollie. Then the problem is that of the attitude of the controllers who prefer to, stick to rules rather than using common sense which is total shit. There are pictures of Hollie punching it, she punched it, reinstate her. Jess said she saw me punch the control at the british long this year, (and she's got the most to lose by saying it) so use some common sense and reinstate me.
Feb 3, 2016 7:32 PM # 
graeme:
No, wait, aren't the IOF advisers infallible. And they stand up and take responsibility if things go wrong too. That's what they told me.

Its a clear MP, see for yourself...
https://vimeo.com/101150264
...there was no issue to discuss with the next year's organisers.
Feb 4, 2016 1:45 PM # 
andrewd:
not sure if you've seen the final final details but "The Scottish sprint Championships will be calculated on the first race only."
Feb 4, 2016 2:33 PM # 
graeme:
Good. We left a bit of wriggle room in the spec to allow a chasing sprint format, but I think for a championship interval starts are fairer.
Feb 4, 2016 3:51 PM # 
buzz:
@BrandNewMe your AP is busier than Nope these days!
Feb 5, 2016 8:06 AM # 
O-ing:
"Well we would be there but we have had a bit of an entries fail (kids vomiting all last week - orienteering wasn't foremost in our thoughts). We might chance it with EOD. Usually when we have an entries fail I can sweet talk the organiser, but ESOC are fairly immune to my charms. What can I say? Titting around finding and reading final details, worrying about whether I have punched controls or not, trying to decide whether or not injuries / illnesses will clear up in time to run a race (and boy have I wasted entry fees over the past few years by being too crocked to run) all detracts from the navigating-in-a-nice-forest aspect. Maybe I should just head to the Trossachs with a training map every weekend and forget about actual orienteering races. Then I would be guaranteed a good time and come back smiling each weekend."
Do you mind if I use this - absolute classic reason for O to change its ways.
PS re electronic punching - IOF have "legislated" that electronic systems are infallible and the competitors are to blame for any stuff up. Thats the way it is.
Feb 5, 2016 8:56 AM # 
BrandNewMe:
Feel free to use.

I love the Hollie footage Graeme. I love the way she not only is she shown to have punched properly but for longer than Judith, and the freeze framed photos could be used as an example for a beginner of how to use SI.
Feb 5, 2016 1:26 PM # 
graeme:
Actually, someone must have faked that footage because according to IOF there's no possibility of such a DSQ. Here's the advice when I raised it.

We don’t share the concern about having the last control in the arena. This is standard practice, and there is no history of this being a fairness/DSQ-risk (if it was, Jorn would be the first to address it!)

The Russian DQ protest this year wasn't even passed from back IOF to the WOC organisers, so that didn't happen either.

Nobody from the IOF team has ever spoken to me or Graham Mc after our concerns were proven correct.

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