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Attackpoint - performance and training tools for orienteering athletes

Discussion: 0.4 miles

in: Jan Erik Naess; Jan Erik Naess > 2016-02-19

Feb 20, 2016 9:53 PM # 
643.7 m is an odd race distance. Why are you even running sprints? You should be doing 1500 m at least.
Feb 20, 2016 11:27 PM # 
Jan Erik Naess:
I changed it to 400m xD

Yeah I know, to train with my track team I pretty much need to do whichever races that they put me in. I have been training with the middle distance crew to get a good base, and because they do lots of lower body and core workouts, which are great for orienteering. I'm going to start doing atlas one long run a week now, and I'm talking to me dad about moving up.

We are currently working on hard kicks, and we should be moving up to the 800m or 1600m. If we don't then I'll find a way to get myself there because I know that that is what I need to be running for orienteering.

The main thing holding me back though, it that although they are an awesome team to train with, they are extremely strict with rules, and currently my middle distance coaches are nice about letting me take Saturday off for a rest day so that I can orienteer on the weekends. If I move up I will have the two most intense coaches in the program, and that may make it difficult for me to skip practices without being kicked off of the team. I will try to talk to them about letting me just train with them or something around that, but if it doesn't go well then I'm more or less stranded and have to train on my own...

I think that over the next few weeks I will move to doing longer distance workouts, and probably try to stick to the long distance team, and then I'll have to do my other muscle workouts at home which will be a bit of a drag, but I can get it done if I need to :)
Feb 22, 2016 3:43 PM # 
Jan Erik Naess:
I talked to my mom about it and she made a fair point that orienteering races are a lot more like 800m intervals than a 10km jog. So I think that I'm still on the right track training wise :)
Feb 22, 2016 7:43 PM # 
Sorry but how are they more like 800m intervals? A well run orienteering race should be at more or less constant effort (not pace because changes as the terrain changes). I would think it would be closest to a 10km xc race (elite middle distances anyway) or a half marathon for the long distance.
Feb 23, 2016 12:38 AM # 
I'd have to agree with Jeff here. If you try to run an orienteering race like intervals you're going to burn out a lot quicker than if you tried to run at a constant effort. Especially for the long distance where you may be running for hour(s) at a time.
Feb 23, 2016 1:31 AM # 
Bring NevMonster into this discussion and he will rightfully tell you that training for 800m is a very good thing for your speed development. Get fast then add more distance.
Feb 23, 2016 1:53 AM # 
Isn't it the other way around, build a base then add speed?
Feb 23, 2016 2:03 AM # 
Yes build the base and then build the speed. But build the speed by racing/training over 800m and then build that speed up over longer distances.

Jan Erik, your father ditched us for dinner tonight (hanging out with Tarno instead) so we ate his burgers instead. ;-)
Feb 23, 2016 3:17 AM # 
Jan Erik Naess:
Good, he doesn't need any more fat, he's been snacking on chocolate chips... even when my mom hides them!
Feb 23, 2016 3:48 AM # 
Jan Erik Naess:
Yeah, in any way that you plan to train, getting a base is a necessity. I had one from skating though, so my body wasn't able to take long millage, that's why I've been 100% game for all of the middle distance training. I do need to work a little more on stamina, but other than that I'm getting really fit all around.

Orienteering can be sort of like a bunch of 800m races because there are times when you need to/can excel, whether that be on a road or up a hill, but as Jeff said, there should be a sort of base speed that you go at, it can vary depending on your route choice and abilities.

Less experienced orienteers(like myself) often times need to make up for the need to really slow down in technical areas by avoiding those difficult route choices or running to my highest level of navigation in easy areas.
Feb 23, 2016 4:33 PM # 
I think that Nevin is referring as much or more to a multi-seasonal long term plan than with a season.

As a younger athlete focus on getting really fast and then gradually as a senior you can extend that speed to long distance races.

I could be wrong but that's how I've always interpreted that particular piece of advice from Nev.
Feb 23, 2016 10:49 PM # 
yes ... like I wrote.

OK its going to be pizza dinner for your father tonight when he visits. I'll hide the chocolate.
Feb 23, 2016 11:38 PM # 
A lot of people are more suited to middle distance (800m-1500m) than long (5000m plus). Orienteering is a great sport in that it caters for both; people naturally suited to either can do well. My brother, for instance, won a silver medal in the World Masters Orienteering behind Jorgen Martensson in 2000, broke the M40 800m world masters record in September 2000 and followed that up with gold in the World Veterans 800m/1500m in 2001.
Feb 24, 2016 1:52 AM # 
Training for 400 is one of the hardest training regimes. If you train hard for competing at 400, you will be good for races much longer. Finding the pace for those may take a few tries, but you will be well prepared.
I ran the 400, well 1/4 mile in high school, and was the fastest in my class at the mile, against others who were training for it. I had a good coach, but training 400's is good preparation for mile and 2 mile races.
As others have stated, if you have speed, then you can always add some long runs. This is exactly what my daughter did when she competed at JWOC, trained for the 800 and 1000m with the track team, then did 1-2 hour runs before JWOC.
Learn to run fast when are young, and you will stay fast from then on.
Feb 24, 2016 2:48 AM # 
Jan Erik Naess:
I have recently been noticing that doing these slightly shorter races is actually helping me a lot with maintaining that push once you hit the wall. My last 400m race I did was the first time ever that I didn't cave in to wanting to slow down, now I'll do that in the 800m on Thursday :)
It's pretty cool how many different combinations there are for people to still be able to excel in orienteering. I'm normally a 1 miler, but I have really struggled in the kick so this should help me work harder when I get tired.
Yeah I have been trying to figure out how to work my odd running pattern, because I came into it with no running base, just general strength. I will be doing something along the lines of that where I start the long runs closer to JWOC than for base building. I feel that it's the best way for me to remain injury free and improve. Recently I have been contemplating whether or not to add a designated "Long Run" to my weekly schedule, because it almost seems like my orienteering races can work for that. They are 30-50min, if I were to do a long run it would be just one consistent pace for 60-90 min

Thanks Hammer! He just complained to me that I had told you guys to hide the candy hahaha
Feb 24, 2016 3:36 AM # 
We were just making plans for Flying Pig. bringing a few ARKers down to meet up with you guys.
Feb 24, 2016 9:09 AM # 
Just a few? ;-)
Feb 24, 2016 2:07 PM # 
Jan Erik Naess:
That sounds great! I'm super excited, the races will be awesome :D
Feb 28, 2016 4:24 PM # 
Izzy B:
Yay ARKers at the flying pig!
Feb 28, 2016 9:18 PM # 
Jan Erik Naess:
you know it ;P
Feb 29, 2016 5:14 PM # 
Just saw this and agree with what's above. Key thing: much easier to add the distance endurance as you age, but good luck doing that with pure speed.
Also, 400m allows you to work on your running technique which will pay off at all distances.

Who's got the fastest 400m of this crowd? Rhombus?
Feb 29, 2016 5:59 PM # 
Maybe, I've only ever raced one as a relay and we didn't get splits. I'll have to get back to you on that
Feb 29, 2016 6:43 PM # 
Checking in with a relay 53
Feb 29, 2016 7:02 PM # 
Wow that's quick! I think mine was 56, but at one point I could roll out of bed and run 58 easy.
Mar 1, 2016 12:20 AM # 
Jan Erik Naess:
Dang you guys are fast! Well if I keep up my rate of shaving one second off per race I should be there pretty soon ;P

Oh so I talked to my coach and basically what what we're doing for our running training for track, is that we are working on speed and being able to maintain it. So we've started with the lowest distances and we will continue to build up. I think this week I will be running the 1mi which will be a lot of fun! We won't go past that though, which I'm alright with... the 2mi is a bit brutal haha
Mar 1, 2016 12:29 AM # 
the rate limiting step with Nev's 400m time was the rolling out of bed part
Mar 1, 2016 12:39 AM # 
Jan Erik Naess:
I don't know, that may have helped knowing that he couldn't have been more physically rested haha
Mar 1, 2016 8:13 AM # 
Beat my 800 PR junior year by laying in the field instead of warming up until two minutes before my start, so hey, maybe Nev and I are on to something. I did go on and beat that time again the next race though so it could also have hindered me.
Mar 2, 2016 12:30 AM # 
Very true Hammer, very true.

Of course I was running my fastest at DAL but you should really take a lot of their times with a grain of salt.

Just in case you know other DAL Tigers....
Mar 2, 2016 12:34 AM # 
Jan Erik Naess:
All DAL times are considered olympic standard ;)
Mar 2, 2016 12:36 AM # 
So how many times did an orienteer with AUAA XC?
Mar 2, 2016 12:52 AM # 
Jan Erik Naess:
Mar 2, 2016 1:03 AM # 
Al Yarr could play with Dalplex times like a finely tuned violin.

Did Mike Fellows win AU Cross?

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