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Discussion: Yeah, those start lists are bollocks.

in: tRicky; tRicky > 2016-03-06

Mar 6, 2016 3:59 AM # 
The only event which needs to have starts by ranking order with the highest ranked starting last is the WRE at Melbourne Uni. All the rest really ought to be random draw!
Mar 6, 2016 4:55 AM # 
That was my assumption too. At least Tash will be happy with the knowledge that she's not first, or last, in either draw.

Looking again, race 3 is not reverse seeded although it does have a few fast guys off early and the rest at the end. Either way, race 3 and 4 I'm being chased by Leon!
Mar 6, 2016 5:02 AM # 
YES!!! Not First or LAST!! WHOOHOO!!
Mar 7, 2016 10:58 PM # 
There may be randomness within blocks - I haven't looked closely but it does seem odd that Rachel W is starting within a minute of me in 3 of the races and in the 4th we're only separated by an extra minute where no one is starting...
Mar 7, 2016 11:38 PM # 
The fourth being the WRE where they've slotted in W20E runners.

Yeah there is some randomness to it given that someone like Jo Anna Maynard is slotted in all over the place; sometimes at the front and sometimes with the faster runners. She wouldn't have a seeding given she's just come up into W20 this year.
Mar 8, 2016 2:06 AM # 
My understanding is that the orders are:

#1 - reverse Aus ranking
#2 - reverse world ranking
#3 - based on reverse Aus ranking but with some random shuffling within groups
#4 - forward Aus ranking (I think also with some shuffling)

You can get some "interesting" outcomes involving people who don't have a full quota of Australian and/or world rankings - I'm apparently seeded one place ahead of Ralph in the WRE :-). There are also people whose Australian and world rankings are relatively consistent, and some where those deviated wildly.
Mar 8, 2016 2:14 AM # 
Let's hope the Easter organisers don't take the same approach to their start lists...I know the first 2 races are WREs but I sincerely hope the last 2 will be perfectly normal boring random draws.
Mar 8, 2016 3:18 AM # 
There are separate sprint and middle/long world rankings, so there should be a fair bit of shuffling between the first two days of Easter even if done in strict WR order.
Mar 8, 2016 4:11 AM # 
My middle and long world ranking would be utter, utter garbage but I sometimes have decent sprint WREs, except when I forget to punch a control as in the case of last year's Aus Sprint.

There would definitely have to be some shuffling in #3 and #4 above with Leon a minute behind me in both the forward and reverse list!
Mar 8, 2016 4:25 AM # 
The thing is, when you take out all the internationals (and Aussies) who aren't present in Aust it generally means the sprint and middle start lists aren't really very different in sequence - unless the juniors are incorporated into the sprint, which they weren't last Easter - and so we chose not to use reverse ranking order for the middle, but randomised starters within ranking blocks.
Mar 8, 2016 9:38 AM # 
Oops, actually Tash is last starter in race 6. I'm last in race 5 (other than late starter Jim).
Mar 8, 2016 10:02 AM # 
One of my frustrations when I was a L3 controller doing Aus Champs, etc was why any of this shite mattered. To me it smacked of an elegantly simple sport (in concept) trying to be a "real sport" by having lots of technicalities. And, yes, I loved going to OFA Conferences where these things were debated - NOT!
Mar 9, 2016 4:14 AM # 
Mar 10, 2016 2:52 AM # 
You'll be pleased to hear that that sort of stuff doesn't get debated at OA Conferences any more - it's dealt with in the Technical Committee instead.

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