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Discussion: Not enough

in: OJ; OJ > 2016-03-27

Mar 29, 2016 8:54 AM # 
I wore thermal, gloves and had my FR inov8 cagoule on (no hat though) and it was nowhere near enough. Arctic gear might have done it, but you still wouldn't have been able to see the limestone under the snow.
Mar 29, 2016 2:07 PM # 
Hat and hood pretty crucial in that ( and a real waterproof which I guess yours was but most people's weren't...)
Mar 29, 2016 5:19 PM # 
Interested in your comment about obviously being overplanned. I did a lot of work trying to establish the right distance for this, aiming for a winning time by the best elite of 95-100 (I'd asked a number of elite what was wanted, and all said that they wanted a genuine long distance race, where the very best, i,e a Georgiou or Hubmann, would take this time, and no JK has ever hit the upper half of the range).
I had all the results for Kilnsey back to 2005, plus the JK results from 95 (the last time it was held here), plus other JK results etc (I didn't have the results you refer to, and wasn't able to track a set down). That JK was 16.2k, and won in 79:50 by Christian Aerbersold, just in front of Steve Hale.
Everything I saw said that the best elite would run sub 5 m/km on this area. I checked this against GG's winning time on the adjacent area last September (which is if anything slightly slower) in the SHIs. That gave me a time for him on the course as planned of 101-103 minutes, about right, given that he's a few minutes slower than the very best long distance runners.

I put the distance past several people in elite coaching (Liz Campbell, Bilbo, Mark Nixon), and nobody murmured. In fact, one comment was to question whether it was long enough!

Take a look at the times people took on the day, and allow for the conditions - were they really overlong? Then look at the fact that at the point at which GG retired he had been running sub-5m/km (as had 4 others). True this point was only a third of the way round, but it had involved almost half the climb.

So - was it really so obvious that it was overplanned? Last year Georgiou won over 15.4k/720m in 86:29 on a much tougher area. To achieve 95-100 mins there, the course would have had to have been 17-17.8k/800+m of climb. So, was 2-3k more but 150-200m less climb on an area as fast as Kinsey so obviously too long?

There's nobody more upset about Sunday than me after over a year's intense work, but I'm more than prepared to 'fess up if I got it wrong. I just need the hard evidence rather than gut reactions! So, if you've got those results, I'd love to see them. What distance, climb, times of the leaders?
Cheers, A.
Mar 29, 2016 5:24 PM # 
would have loved to try to hit the target time!
Mar 29, 2016 5:25 PM # 
I think it was great - hardly any opportunities in the uk to run proper length races - it is important for international preparation
Mar 29, 2016 7:02 PM # 
I can't find the Jamie Stevenson result - I was a junior at the time so well before the Internet was invented. I guess I was surprised to see a course longer than the longest WOC race ever (Vuokatti 2013, 19.8 in fast moraine) given that a) it's not WOC, so no one is going to be in peak form and racing for their lives, and b) it's a mountain (albeit quite a gentle one). If a climb slows you to 6mpkm, say, then the downhill has to compensate to the tune of 3mpkm. That is if you don't ever stray from the red line. That's fast, even on Kilnsey. OK, it wasn't miles out, but 100 mins was always going to be a stretch, even if you're GG. Or Swiss.

Nice courses though, and really sorry that the event was marred by the weather after all the hard work. On the plus side, it's one that folk will be talking about for years to come!
Mar 29, 2016 7:22 PM # 
Thanks for the comments, both of you. As you say Oli, it will be remembered! And to to think that only quarter of an hour beforehand, I'd been discussing with Mark N. whether the time would get under 100 (his estimate) or a minute or so over (mine). Hey ho!

On the original topic - I think you're right about FRA style rules on open fells.
Mar 30, 2016 12:41 PM # 
Forgive my nerdiness, but I had to go and find those results, it would have niggled me for ever if I hadn't - you may have spotted thread on Nope. If not, event was in 1998: 17.8k, 565m, Jamie won in 90:17. Gives a time of 102 mins for Sunday's course, in my target range for gg. I notice a certain O. Johnson running M21E, 7th in just under 106. I also picked up a sentence in the planner's notes which is rather ironic in the circumstances: "Particular thanks to Andrew for his advice. You'll be thankful that he tempered some of my original excesses on distance for some of the courses." !!!
Mar 30, 2016 12:59 PM # 
Yes, that was the one! Remember thinking that Jamie was a legend to run that time (he was). Impressed you managed to find it!
Mar 30, 2016 1:46 PM # 
wasn't that the SHIs ?
Mar 30, 2016 2:04 PM # 
Yes, you were 2nd in 97 mins Kitch. See link on Nopesport thread...

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