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Discussion: Virtual AP Speedwork Training Camp

in: Orienteering; General;

Apr 2, 2016 11:01 PM # 
matzah ball:
Save the dates - April 13th - 16th. We (BP, incomparable national masters sprinter, and matzah ball) will post some track workouts in this thread, and all that want to do them with us, and then share their results and observations, are invited. The purpose is not to try to kill each other, just get through tough workouts with the help of some camaraderie. The idea is not necessarily to try to match or beat each others times, but to complete the workout to the best of your current ability - without pulling or tearing assorted tendons and muscles. p.s. Runners less than 60 years old are welcome:)
Apr 4, 2016 3:19 PM # 
matzah ball:
Here's the proposed schedule. Comments welcome:

Monday April 11,,, rest/easy stretching/drills

Tuesday 12th... Q1 (first 'quality workout' w/ a nod to Jack Daniels, the venerable running coach): short 40-50m wind sprints, a 200 hard (90-95%) with complete recovery (5R) then 4-6 200''s run as follows: 120 cruise (85% max) then 80m (home straight at) 95%. 3R

Wed 13th... Shake out run, drills and strength

Thursday 14th... Q2 workout: strides, then 4-5 1200 run as cruise 800 (80%) then harder last 400 (85-90%) 4-5R

Friday... easy/rest stretching

Saturday 16th Q3 workout: strides then 600, 400, 300, 200, 100 down ladder (85%, with reducing rest starting at 3R)

Su Long (or as long as you want to make it)
Apr 4, 2016 5:29 PM # 
MB Looks good - count me in :-) Now where are all the other OF's?
While geared towards masters age groups, it would apply to younger HS runners training for the 800/1500m, or for developing speed in general and can be modified volume wise for other age groups.
BTW not sure I deserve the accolade!
Apr 4, 2016 5:31 PM # 
BP & mb,
I follow Jack D a lot in my training, and this looks interesting. I might partake depending on the weather in these parts.
I will say, IMHO, that what I like about the JD workouts is their straightforward and give you pace and duration guidelines.
Q1 is way more complicated than I would go at, I would just go run 200's or 400's. I was never much of a track racer, so the cruise and sprint parts of a 200 are too much for me to contemplate. I just go out and try to hold an even pace.
Q2 is odd for me. I would classify this as an I pace workout in Daniels, by therest and workout lengths, but too slow . I pace would be 98% of max HR. Otherwise it's a T pace with too long of a rest. But I guess that's why you can do more of them.
Q3- Everyone loves ladders, we did them in HS I remember. Now they just make it too complicated. I can never adjust the speeds for each one. If I run say 10x400, I usually can hit a groove and do each one at the goal pace without much thinking .
Have fun, maybe I'll see you out there!

Apr 4, 2016 6:12 PM # 
matzah ball:
on the progressive 200's definitely need to put a cone at 120 and have a target time in mind when you get there, otherwise it would be way too confusing for me. bp, can you explain the thinking behind those? I usually speed up at the end anyway, which I always considered a weakness.
Apr 4, 2016 7:01 PM # 
I am confused by the terms 5R, 3R, etc. Does that mean how many times to repeat the workout? So for example Q2, in total would be as few at 16 1200's or as many as 25 1200's? That just seems like a lot. Would you please clarify.

Also, for Q1, exactly what is the workout? Do you run a couple of short 40-50 meter wind sprints followed by (5) hard 200's (with rest between each), followed by 4-6 200's--- and than do that whole thing 3 times so that in total you run 15 hard 200's and 12-18 variable 200's? Again, it seems like a lot.
Apr 4, 2016 7:34 PM # 
Coach's points are well made and well taken. I think the intent of Q2 was T pace with some pickup. Bottom line, yes keep it simple and adapt for your training needs.
The progressive 200's are designed to add variety- otherwise running at steady effort is perfectly fine!
MB-essentially as you come off the turn onto the straight, the idea is to accelerate to the finish line - so cone or no cone is up to you. No real precision here!
Carl- the R stands for recovery in minutes not reps (sorry for the shorthand). So for Q1 the max number of reps run at say average 90% max is 6 on top of the first one which is designed to set target time. You could of course do more at lower intensity (I pace) and shorter recovery
To clarify: By % max I mean speed- say you run a 30sec 200, then 90% is 33 sec, rather than HR max. The longer VO2 max intervals would be better governed by PE or HR.
Apr 4, 2016 8:13 PM # 
matzah ball:
I'm going for the acceleration I guess, maybe try putting the acceleration into the middle or beginning for variety - see what happens. PE perceived effort, based on how hard it feels compared to all out - HR heart rate, same only with numbers based on info from a monitor - correct?
Apr 4, 2016 9:24 PM # 
Correct :-)
Apr 11, 2016 1:53 PM # 
matzah ball:
First workout starts tomorrow! WOO HOO
Apr 11, 2016 8:18 PM # 
in the rain :(
Apr 11, 2016 10:00 PM # 
I'm game. Like OF, I mean coach, I have rain in the forecast tomorrow, so I tried to jump the gun on the first workout this afternoon, but there was a lacrosse game in the stadium. If the weather is too rotten tomorrow I may put it off until Wednesday. OF means older fellow, right?
Apr 11, 2016 10:18 PM # 
Troll Cup triple header this weekend so just easy runs this week for me...
Apr 11, 2016 10:30 PM # 
matzah ball:
no hurry, advantages of virtual over time-and-space-locked activity. wait for sunshine. next week if its better.
Apr 12, 2016 3:53 PM # 
Q1 in the bag!
OF = Old fart :-)
Apr 12, 2016 3:56 PM # 
@BP: This link works better :)
Apr 12, 2016 3:59 PM # 
Thanks :-)
Apr 12, 2016 5:04 PM # 
Yeah, without a smiley everyone thinks you're always serious. Q1 done here too.
Apr 12, 2016 8:29 PM # 
Way to go Tom!
Apr 12, 2016 11:19 PM # 
matzah ball:
3 down!
and no hamstring tears, so far (barely). that was tough, but when you're doing a group activity, its harder to back out. pretty sure these would not have happened w/o the group.
Apr 13, 2016 3:18 PM # 
matzah ball:
Q2 in early
on a roll, so went for it
Apr 14, 2016 4:20 PM # 
Q2 done.
Apr 15, 2016 1:18 PM # 
Q2 modified
Apr 15, 2016 4:01 PM # 
O Steve!:
I will play along...I will be the comic relief as far as pace goes but everyone is likely to feel better about themselves with me around.....
Apr 15, 2016 4:03 PM # 
O Steve!:
I did 3 min at 5K pace and 2 min recovery x 8 down a straight running path here in town.....I estimate my 3 min intervals were done at 9:18/mile pace or so.....anyway, got it done!
Apr 15, 2016 4:30 PM # 
Yay Steve!
So here are some draft "ground rules"
1. There is a plan- however the plan is flexible!
2. Sessions should be fun
3. Discretion advised- no injuries
Apr 16, 2016 2:49 PM # 
Q3 in the bag
Apr 16, 2016 6:53 PM # 
Unfortunately, my hamstring is telling me to sit this one out. After orienteering tomorrow I'm going to take it easy next week leading up to West Point.
Apr 16, 2016 6:56 PM # 
matzah ball:
Gotta treat thosehamstrings right, Tom!
Apr 16, 2016 9:03 PM # 
Rule #3 rules. Kudos Tom and nice one Rudy!
Apr 17, 2016 1:16 PM # 
matzah ball:
Yes, success! And the best thing is nobody got hurt.

Consensus seems to be 3 in 4 days a bit too much. But what do you think of one AP session every couple of weeks for camaraderie? We could all take turns suggesting workouts, which naturally everybody is going to have to adjust to their purposes...

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