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Discussion: my take on JD is that the s...

in: billh; billh > 2016-04-22

Apr 22, 2016 4:08 PM # 
matzah ball:
In my interpretation of the JD unvierse, the speed workouts are supported by a platform of solid, well-paced 9-10 min/m running. i.e. while not as sexy, even more important than the speedwork and comes first or at least concurrently, for strengthening and injury prevention if nothing more. In other words, be careful out there.
Apr 22, 2016 9:45 PM # 
I've never had a better run base in my life so I feel pretty injury resistant if not fast . . . but thanks for the heads up . . . if I get injured you can say "told you so" . . . haha.
Apr 22, 2016 9:50 PM # 
matzah ball:
thats it? the best run base? see, that why i'm impressed - if you keep this upward trajectory in a few years you'll be better than better.
Apr 23, 2016 12:39 AM # 
I don't think JD specifies any time for base phase, I mean, that is the whole purpose of VDOT, it's geared toward one's level of fitness at the time. base for you might be 9-10 minutes, but I'm not a superawesome masters runner like you. :) my base might be somewhat slower than yours, nevertheless, still a base.
Apr 23, 2016 11:40 AM # 
matzah ball:
Oh yes, I'm surprised you say that because we both know you have a copy of JD and have looked at it extensively. Are you kidding me - or are you kidding yourself?

So, in table 5.2 he gives a range. for vdot of 46, which might be appropriate for longer stuff for me, E pace is 8:31-9:34. That sounds about right - if I'm feeling peppy I'll get to 8 or even a little below, if tired, I'll go all the way to 9:30.

Lets say you were going w vdot of 40, that would be 9:32-10:41. When I look up your pr, though, its actually quite close to my 45-46 vdot referenced above.

So, the lowest values he gives are vdot 30, 12-13:16. Thats for somebody whose pr in the mile is 9:11!!!
Apr 23, 2016 6:16 PM # 
Haha ... we have a much different reading of JD ... I'd like to see where he says to train by a year old pr ... !
Apr 23, 2016 6:19 PM # 
But you're right I could have a better base ... my rationale is all the good mid distance races are in 6weeks if don't restart phase 2 now wont be able to race
Apr 23, 2016 11:03 PM # 
matzah ball:
well you could go by your 9:11 pr if you want.

btw, went to lindenwood hs invite today. it hit me that the winning 4 x 800 (about 25 sec slower) and the 3200 winner (about 50 seconds slower) weren't even close to Billy's times...and there were a lot of teams there. puts webster in perspective for me!
Apr 24, 2016 7:01 PM # 
yes, we got a bit of perspective at the Ladue meet, in the other direction, really the first real competition . . . Lafayette was there with their four powerhouse distance seniors, even brought out Hindman to run the 800m in 1:56 for 2nd. Meyrer their sub-9 guy ran the 1600m in something like 4:17 with Quissenbery coming around to win in 4:15. Then they ran their "weak" guy in the 3200m Haines who time-trialed it to a 9:24 with Billy getting passed by their sophomore sub-varsity guy in 9:54 and billy leaving his comeback sprint too late and getting third by half a second at the line! terrible race for him. he basically let Haines go, and then let a guy draft him and slowed enough for the sophomore Lafayette guy Oufattole to bridge up to him and draft then power by him on the last lap. Oh, that was hard to watch. Well, a good time of year to have a bad race. He has time to recover for Sectionals in four weeks, then hopefully state. he is still ranked 9th in the class 4 state at the 32, and fourth in his sectional grouping with a slew of guys just behind him. should be pretty tight race.

they also got an "education" in the 4x8, finishing 4th a good 20 seconds down from class 5 powerhouses, but managing to PR by 1 sec even though lost about 2 sec in the first exchange, came to a complete stop while other team runners completely blocked their lane. but are ranked first in the state in class 4. so a birth in the state race seems likely.
Apr 24, 2016 7:04 PM # 
back to the training issue. do you suggest I continue with base training in the 9-10 range? but then I go into senior games with no speedwork at all. ??
Apr 24, 2016 8:35 PM # 
matzah ball:
Earlier this year I did some races that I was not ready for at all. I knew that in the back of my mind, but the opportunity was there - how many times would i be in CA or NM for those events? True, sometimes getting your a** kicked can be a good motivator for the next round of training, and it probably was in my case. So maybe there are two kinds of races, motivators/training/fun, and races you look for because you know you are getting into good form.

Not sure if 9-10 paces on some easy runs precludes speed workouts. I certainly wouldn't interpret JD that way at all. I don't think running 9-10 pace is going to hinder you, unless you should be running 8-9. If you feel like running today, that's a gift, your job is to make it the best run you can muster without hindering your long term development.
Apr 24, 2016 8:43 PM # 
matzah ball:
It was pretty hot - 3 girls fainted in the distance events at the lindenwood meet - could that have effected him? It does some more than others...would Sectionals be the best races to spectate? Would like to see Billy run in person before he splits town.
Apr 25, 2016 2:56 AM # 
the sectionals will be a great 3200m for sure. Actually, the District 1 race will be even better because they have a good 10-12 sub 10 guys who are vying for 4 spots; whereas Billy is pretty much guaranteed to cruise through his District 2 race. Then those top 4 super fast guys from District 1 meet Billy and the other 3 District 2 winners in the Sectional, of which only 4 advance to state. Last year, all four District 1 guys, 3 Festus and Naeger of St Gen, finished 1-4, and Billy just out of the money in 5th. It is lining up that way again this year. District 1 is just a monster distance powerhouse. But yes, Sectionals will be the race to watch. That will be his season right there. It will be EPIC!

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