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Discussion: Not Enough Screens - argh!

in: Orienteering; General;

Aug 20, 2016 1:42 PM # 
Live coverage of the women's sprint final just got under way.

English soccer.

so many things to watch this morning.
so few screens
Aug 20, 2016 1:48 PM # 
Are you getting decent streaming from WOC AZ? Mine keeps dropping out every twenty seconds or so, and is super pixellated.
Aug 20, 2016 1:48 PM # 
is GPS tracking working for anybody?
Aug 20, 2016 1:49 PM # 
Poor streaming and no GPS (invalid token)
Aug 20, 2016 1:55 PM # 
I do not like paying for something and having it be this crap
Aug 20, 2016 1:58 PM # 
Likewise. The TV is showing some GPS segments so it must be working, just not available to use who have paid!
Aug 20, 2016 1:59 PM # 
Invalid token for me too.
No surprise though. Every year there are always technical problems. It's not good enough!
Aug 20, 2016 2:01 PM # 
IT usually improves across the week. It's just a shame you've missed the most instantly exciting race by then. You'd think the Swedes would have this down.
Aug 20, 2016 2:02 PM # 
My streaming is perfect (so far)

But same problem with the GPS tracking
Aug 20, 2016 2:03 PM # 
Without seeing a map TV is hard to follow.
Aug 20, 2016 2:05 PM # 
Before the first start there was an excellent run through of the course, leg by leg. And some actual tracking of a runner with video & gps track.

I can tell you it is VERY easy. But hilly
Aug 20, 2016 2:07 PM # 
Aug 20, 2016 2:08 PM # 
AZ what's your EPL team of choice?
Aug 20, 2016 2:09 PM # 
I guess you only get decent streaming if you're one of the first online!
Aug 20, 2016 2:10 PM # 
And the IOF needs to get it right - it is their LIVE CENTRE!
Aug 20, 2016 2:16 PM # 
Aug 20, 2016 2:17 PM # 
It's dropping out less but it's still terrible quality.
Aug 20, 2016 2:23 PM # 
@Nev - they played yesterday ;-)
Aug 20, 2016 2:26 PM # 
Aug 20, 2016 2:29 PM # 
Aug 20, 2016 2:32 PM # 
I wish he'd stop saying that Maja Alm was skipping. She's sprinting, really, really fast. Would he say Hubmann was skipping? Doubt it.
Aug 20, 2016 2:42 PM # 
Muhamid Ali skipped ;-)
Just risking a joke...

I agree - these commentators are 'okay', but they're not pros. They make several painful mistakes. For orienteering to work on TV they will need to move Per F. from arena announcing to the TV mic.
Aug 20, 2016 2:43 PM # 
I'll reserve my comments about that guy commentating.
Aug 20, 2016 2:45 PM # 
Aug 20, 2016 2:46 PM # 
I think they decided to open it up or something.
Aug 20, 2016 2:46 PM # 
I thought Ali floated.
Aug 20, 2016 2:49 PM # 
Thanks igor! Have they opened the tv as well?
Aug 20, 2016 2:50 PM # 
have no idea about TV, works for me (with the ticket) so I am afraid to touch it.
Aug 20, 2016 2:54 PM # 
The low route along the waterside from 1-2 appears to be faster.
Aug 20, 2016 2:58 PM # 
Although Merl has found a good high route.
Aug 20, 2016 2:59 PM # 
I risked turning off my very good stream & re-start it.
It is still very good.
Aug 20, 2016 3:02 PM # 
Nice to see all the flagging around the out-of-bounds.
(Looks like the organizers really want the race to be won by 'orienteereing' not trickery ;-)
Aug 20, 2016 3:07 PM # 
Did Niemi just mispunch?
Aug 20, 2016 3:07 PM # 
The commentary really is terrible. There is no coherence, I have no idea what's happening.

The guy is not an orienteer right? They need two people that know the athletes and know the sport in there.
Aug 20, 2016 3:16 PM # 
Since I don't think it's been said yet - big congrats to Damian Konotopetz for finishing 5 seconds out of qualifying for the final. He's improved hugely over the years and it's exciting to see him so close now! Will Critchley was 19 seconds out and Alex Jospe just 15 seconds out. So while there's no North American's in the final today there were some close calls!
Aug 20, 2016 3:43 PM # 
The guy knows nothing, the girl knows slightly more. I had the displeasure if listening to them last year and it was cringe-worthy. They don't know who anyone is, the can't pronounce any names, they can't maintain a narrative of the race. It's awful. But the girls uncle or something like that is in the IOF so she gets to do it...
Aug 20, 2016 3:51 PM # 
Last year they so didn't know who people were that I actually approached the IOF to have names instead of numbers on the bibs ;-)

Didn't seem to take unfortunately.

But if even the commentators don't know who people are then how are we ever going to be a 'serious sport' where athletes are recognizable by the general public. Check out the Olympics - that's how to do it!
Aug 20, 2016 3:55 PM # 
It's not bad to have a non-orienteer commentating as long as there is some knowledgeable person next to him, forcefully correcting him.
Aug 20, 2016 4:03 PM # 
A good commentator can work on anything, but they should do some research before hand, and as you say, have an expert next to them.
Aug 20, 2016 4:33 PM # 
Not Clive Allen again? If IOF had only read the report from WOC2015... In 2014 I had to resort to the YLE commentary which was better, despite being in Finnish.
The bbc commentator last year was surprisingly excellent, somehow managing to make it exciting while at the same time it was clear he had no idea what was going on.
Aug 20, 2016 4:36 PM # 
I've been watching a bunch of Olympics by watching the full event coverage of many of the "lesser" sports, sometimes live and sometimes taped, and only sometimes the prime time coverage. I would say the commentary for the WOC sprints was on par with the commentary for the less well known sports in the Olympics that were not covered in prime time. There was usually one person who knew very little whose job it seemed was to fill the quiet and make comments that would perhaps appeal to someone who knew very little about the ins and outs of the sport, who would say things that were incorrect and use adjectives not usually used in reference to the athletes in the sport but that made sense if you didn't really know much. Then there was a second person who was more of an expert but who was somewhat stiff and who would get caught up in the performance and get technical. On prime time, the commentators were better but I would also have to listen to all the "fluff" - the back stories, the rivalries, the personalities, the "what does it mean to you" interviews and so forth. Some of that was interesting but I would get tired of it. So while I agree the commentating was not great, It didn't seem out of line with what you get on the Olympics.
Aug 20, 2016 5:46 PM # 
Nixon, have you ever tried? I have a feeling you'd be good at it.
Aug 20, 2016 6:01 PM # 
Nixon was on the arena commentary team last year. He is good at it.
Aug 20, 2016 9:00 PM # 
@Sandy - I was thinking along similar lines - that some of the Olympics commentary is awful too, and they're professional commentators. However - I have access to three sources of Olympics...

1. network TV (CBC) - this is what you are deescribing. Basically useless commentary, where the commentators are often confused, and always putting the emphasis wrong.
2. streaming CBC with no commentary - better than #1 usually, because no adverts and not distracted by inane chatter
3. streaming CBC with "neutrals" commentating. I don't know where this is coming from but it is awesom!! Knowledgeable commentary. They understand what is exciting and what isn't and modulate their voices to build up the excitement. And somehow the adverts are few and far between. It has been a dream olympics

So, yes, WOC coverage is equivalent to #1 Olympic coverage. But that is not good enough. There's no reason we could have #3. I'm not suggesting it is easy, but I really think it wouldn't be that hard to be a lot better
Aug 20, 2016 9:28 PM # 
I didn't stay up for it, but did the login problems for the Livecenter end up getting resolved?
Aug 20, 2016 9:50 PM # 
AZ >> Per F is too good for us - he´s actually in Rio... and from what I´ve experienced he´s just as knowledgeable in track.
Aug 20, 2016 10:21 PM # 
Why doesn't IOF use a commercial service like LiveStream or whatnot? Are they reinventing the technology? Putting the effort into good commentary, good drone or handheld chasing footage, good GPS tracking, good splits, good TV controls seems better (in concert with the organizers), Pick a major reliable service for the tech, I'd think.
Aug 21, 2016 1:31 AM # 
Now that AZ has put the bug in my ear, not having names on bibs is driving me crazy.
Aug 21, 2016 2:30 AM # 
AZ I have been doing a lot of Olympic watching through the streaming and have been very impressed with the commentary. My guess is that an Australian company (based on the accents) has been contracted to provide the commentary in English for all the Olympic events and networks can buy that feed or use their own. CBC uses them a lot on TV as well only using their own teams for Athletics, canoe/kayak and events where Canadians are expected to have a significant impanct. But the point is they know their stuff. So should the WOC commentators.
Aug 21, 2016 3:00 AM # 
Sounds like what Channel 7 is streaming here - they've probably sold their commentary on. The experts have been decent and the talkers haven't been intolerable, which is a huge relief after 6 or 7 Olympics of Bruce f*#&ing McAvaney.
Aug 21, 2016 4:42 AM # 
Sounds like my investment in not paying 18 euros has paid off:-((
Aug 21, 2016 5:22 AM # 
Something I find curious and its not just this event. Being far away the events are often in the middle of the night and I don't always want to stay up. Next day I get onto the website, and struggle to find the obvious - yesterday's results. Sometimes I find them under "live results", but next day its not "live". Why would I look there?

But full marks to (I think) 2016 JWOC. It had a feature I appreciate. The time right now at the arena is ... Of course I can find it somewhere else but it was nice they had thought of the worldwide audience.
Aug 21, 2016 5:59 AM # 
Per F is too good for us - he´s actually in Rio...

Oh-my-got ... That's Un-Be-Leave-Able
Aug 21, 2016 6:38 AM # 
Reading the bios of Per he's an expert commentator in many sports. And only 12 months to wait to hear him at WOC in Estonia:-)) Actually I found his bio while searching for that great tribute to him made by the Aussies...
Aug 21, 2016 2:01 PM # 
For an example of the best commentary team ever, aimed at both people who know the sport and those who don't, watch the movie "Best In Show".
Aug 21, 2016 3:05 PM # 
Nice to see even the mighty Sweden don't know how to design a relay; incoming runners having to pull the next leg's map off the board whilst still in possession of their own map, and then they have to cross over the run-in to get to download...

Commentary crap as ever
Aug 21, 2016 3:20 PM # 
She keeps talking-over him.
They missed the route choice "error" (?) that bobach made that might have explained how the Swede caught up so quickly
Aug 21, 2016 3:28 PM # 
I think they need a commentator who is fixed only on the GPS tracking. They keep missing really interesting stuff (I think)

And did she just say "Gaffle"?
Aug 21, 2016 3:29 PM # 
What's wrong with saying gaffle?
Aug 21, 2016 3:29 PM # 
Nice to see a cameraman with a cable (is this the 90s?) running in front of the athletes...
Aug 21, 2016 3:54 PM # 
I loved that they kept missing first place through the next control.

And flower ceremony before a good few teams have even finished. Classy.
Aug 21, 2016 4:53 PM # 
AZ, does my commentary from Rio count as your 4th source?
Aug 23, 2016 11:44 AM # 
@JimBaker -- they are using LiveStream from what I can see on the page.
Aug 25, 2016 3:16 PM # 
Dumb question--I didn't pay for anything so I don't know what I'm missing...

But, if you want orienteering to be popular, why do anything to limit the full experience for a casual viewer? Any sort of jumping through hoops just reinforces the solipsism of the whole enterprise.
Aug 25, 2016 4:05 PM # 
j-man - absolutely correct. I think this production is also sold to a few cable companies and is shown at a later time - not sure though. Didn't Pink Socks watch it in a Buffalo Wild Wings worse.

Regardless of this, you're still totally right.
Aug 25, 2016 4:13 PM # 
I watched last year's WOC at a Buffalo Wild Wings, which was better than nothing.

I didn't think even that was an option this year...
Aug 25, 2016 4:18 PM # 
I love how I meant to saw once, but automatically linked "Worse" to Buffalo Wild Wings.

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