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Discussion: WOC Middle

in: Orienteering; General

Aug 22, 2016 7:48 PM # 
Cristina:
Running for Team USA tomorrow are Ross, Kseniya, and Sam.

Start times:
Ross 12:16
Kseniya 15:10
Sam 15:26

This are Swedish local. Boston is six hours earlier.

WOC Live Center: http://live.woc2016.se/blog/category/woc-middle-wt...
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Aug 22, 2016 8:49 PM # 
LKohn:
Looking forward to it!
Aug 22, 2016 9:46 PM # 
Rhombus:
And for the Canadians

Eric Kemp 11:44
Louise Oram 15:30
Emily Kemp 16:42
Aug 23, 2016 2:00 AM # 
Nev-Monster:
And best ever results for these countries as of 22 August 2016?
Aug 23, 2016 2:02 AM # 
tRicky:
Top 70.
Aug 23, 2016 2:16 AM # 
ColmM:
Women:
AUS - 13th ('05 & '07)
CAN - 9th ('05)
GBR - 1st ('99)
IRL - 41st ('11)
NZL - 16th ('05)
USA - 29th ('13)

Men:
AUS - 17th ('04)
CAN - 41st ('91)
GBR - 3rd ('06)
IRL - 36th ('01)
NZL - 21st ('10)
USA - 44th ('03)
Aug 23, 2016 2:36 AM # 
Oleg:
What about Barbados?
Aug 23, 2016 2:58 AM # 
tRicky:
DNS
Aug 23, 2016 7:37 AM # 
kwilliams:
Good luck everyone!!
Aug 23, 2016 9:03 AM # 
acjospe:
Now that we're in to the forest races, could somebody who knows explain how the start quota system works, and how the various countries of interest are doing based on last year's positions?

Thanks!
Aug 23, 2016 10:09 AM # 
blairtrewin:
Thanks for the reminder that I've got a job to do on the plane over to Sweden (namely set the national rankings list up to handle this year).

Divisions are determined by results from WOC 2014 and 2015 - the lowest two countries in division 2 after 2015 were replaced by the two highest ranked in division 3 (similarly for the division 1/2 swap but only one country up/one down). Also, division 2 countries only count their best runner from two years ago in each race, and division 1 countries their best 2.

Haven't gone through everything yet, but the points being carried forward by the leading division 3 countries are:

Men: BEL 77, AUS 61, IRL 61, SVK 46, POR 36. Looks like a three-way fight for two promotion spots (no Michiels makes it harder for the Belgians).

Women: IRL 53, ITA 50, BUL 37, POR 36. Almost anybody could get up here, especially with a decent relay (you get 44 points for 20th in the relay so it's pretty important at this level).

At the lower end of division 2, the USA women are only carrying forward 66 points (45 fewer than anyone else) so will need some good results to avoid going down; again the relay will be important here. AUT, POL, GER, HUN and ESP are all possible candidates for the second relegation spot. For the men it's probably between GER, ITA, BLR and ESP unless someone higher has a blowout (or a mispunch) in the relay.

Haven't looked at the division 1/2 boundary yet.

As for start order, that's based on world ranking order (in reverse) but in groups (e.g. Group 1 is 10-best ranked, who start last but in random order).
Aug 23, 2016 10:29 AM # 
Eriol:
Promotion/relegation rules: http://orienteering.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08...

But the number of countries in each division seems to be missing..?
Aug 23, 2016 10:32 AM # 
blairtrewin:
8 in division 1, 14 in division 2.
Aug 23, 2016 11:01 AM # 
tRicky:
Do we get double points for running a junior in the sprint relay?
Aug 23, 2016 11:35 AM # 
Becks:
What is going on?!! All I've learnt is that we're running in the past (Czechoslovakia) and some of the women's controls are under cliffs so they should be careful.

I might ask for a refund!
Aug 23, 2016 11:43 AM # 
undy:
Working OK for me if I ignore the bloke.
Aug 23, 2016 11:47 AM # 
Becks:
But who's where and how are they doing? They react to a screen change, there's no prediction or anticipation.
Aug 23, 2016 11:50 AM # 
Becks:
Bubo, is svt available as usual? Have you got a link?
Aug 23, 2016 11:52 AM # 
Hammer:
SVT is blocked
Aug 23, 2016 11:53 AM # 
undy:
Here comes Street
Aug 23, 2016 11:58 AM # 
Nixon:
Use a proxy server to get an IP in Sweden.

There has clearly been no dialogue between the director and commentary, even if they were good at commentating, the pictures are incoherent.
Aug 23, 2016 12:03 PM # 
Nixon:
Thierry not really doing huge damage yet
Aug 23, 2016 12:03 PM # 
Hammer:
TGIF runs right to #4 and #7 while others all have run left. Hubmann gaining
Aug 23, 2016 12:07 PM # 
Nixon:
Aug 23, 2016 12:27 PM # 
undy:
Every now and then I see the little punch logo and a time appear on the GPS tracking when they are nowhere near a control on their course - maybe a control that is on the women's course ?

(Wait and see if they have a control in here:
Aug 23, 2016 12:27 PM # 
Nixon:
"it's going to be a race between Hubman and Geurgiou"

*Lundanes and Bergman go quicker at #17
Aug 23, 2016 12:29 PM # 
Becks:
Is it finished? I went to work and now I can't access the Men's race?!
WTF?!!?
Aug 23, 2016 12:32 PM # 
Becks:
Found it through a different route. Don't take the link off your center before the race is done!
Aug 23, 2016 12:35 PM # 
Nixon:
A lot of people running through things they should really know better than. Look at the damange Olav does by keeping things white on the way to 19, that basically puts him in the lead
Aug 23, 2016 12:40 PM # 
Nixon:
And the Kyburz steals it by going through the white to 22
Aug 23, 2016 12:42 PM # 
Becks:
Perfect example - I'm at work so I can't watch the GPS too. Why aren't we watching these guys on GPS before they appear in the finish? I'd heard nothing about Kyburz since I got to work. And there he is, probably gold?!
Aug 23, 2016 12:43 PM # 
Sandy:
@Becks: What route did you use? I can't find the Men's race at all.
Aug 23, 2016 12:45 PM # 
Sandy:
Never mind...I guessed the id and found it.
Aug 23, 2016 12:45 PM # 
Becks:
I went through the links to the individual days from the program page. It says replay. Will look for the exact route.
Aug 23, 2016 12:45 PM # 
Nixon:
Anyone who was watching GPS would have know. Bad commentary, bad editing, bad producing
Aug 23, 2016 12:45 PM # 
Becks:
Live blog > link to middle at the top of the page > link to tv on left of page
Aug 23, 2016 12:47 PM # 
Hammer:
gotta have the GPS running on a different screen in sync mode and do your own commentary.
Aug 23, 2016 12:47 PM # 
JanetT:
Big miss on the winning times.
Aug 23, 2016 12:48 PM # 
Sandy:
But why did I bother? The commentary is horrible.
Aug 23, 2016 12:49 PM # 
Becks:
Yup! It's terrible!

Hammer - nice being a prof! I've got work to do ;)
Aug 23, 2016 12:52 PM # 
Becks:
That move on 22 by Kyburz was fantastic! Really interesting early race too, strange route from Thierry on the long leg.
Aug 23, 2016 1:06 PM # 
acjospe:
Per F appears to be back for arena commentary - much better than previous days. I'm sorry you all had such bad experiences from home!
Aug 23, 2016 1:10 PM # 
Becks:
I could hear him the distance! If only he were on TV too!
Aug 23, 2016 1:11 PM # 
Sandy:
For some reason it seemed much worse than the sprint commentary even though I think it's the same people.
Aug 23, 2016 1:20 PM # 
Becks:
It's the same people. I think the problem is that over a longer race, unless you have someone dedicated to the GPS as Nixon says, it's just impossible to come up with a narrative. I don't think they are being at all proactive in showing the coverage, they just seem to be reacting to what they see in front of them. They should be showing sync GPS from runners out there challenging the lead with people who've finished, going to TV controls just before them to watch them through and count down the seconds. They need to be watching at all points during the race, and picking up on people like Kyburz before they reach the run in.

Norway is still the web TV production I remember for doing a really magnificent job. I was hooked to the scree for long periods of time. If this current production isn't even interesting to orienteers, there's no point having this random Scottish chap on their talking a load of s***e to try to make it interesting to the (likely non-existent) general public. Makes us look like a joke. This production is a joke.

The arena team at JWOC did a really good job with this, and I imagine now Per is there the arena team are doing a great job in Sweden too. Are they even showing the same images? It would be interesting to know.
Aug 23, 2016 1:25 PM # 
igor_:
Well, enjoy womens course now with no commentary, just the wind blowing :)
Aug 23, 2016 1:25 PM # 
Becks:
I wonder if we can lobby to get the arena audio? I didn't even look to see if that was an option.
Aug 23, 2016 1:26 PM # 
JimBaker:
They should be showing sync GPS from runners out there challenging the lead with people who've finished, going to TV controls just before them to watch them through and count down the seconds. They need to be watching at all points during the race, and picking up on people like Kyburz before they reach the run in.

Sounds like the excellent Jukola commentary. Can be done apparently.
Aug 23, 2016 1:33 PM # 
Becks:
It absolutely can be done! And has been done many times before. It's insane that they're not getting it right for this.
Aug 23, 2016 1:35 PM # 
Sandy:
Oh no. Sam goofed but appears to have figured it out.
Aug 23, 2016 1:53 PM # 
AZ:
Louise, Sam, Kate Morrison (NZ) all running together. Could be a fast train
Aug 23, 2016 2:03 PM # 
AZ:
Oops - Louise seems to have lost a bit of concentration and dropped a few seconds on the short section between 13 & 15. But still in touch as the three of them enter the final loop
Aug 23, 2016 2:09 PM # 
Hammer:
Louise back into first (so far) at #20 but odd route to #21
Aug 23, 2016 2:12 PM # 
AZ:
The train finally splits up on the way to #21. Sam seems to have the best route - or the strongest legs. But Louise should be coming in close to first .... second (so far) it turns out


Half an hour until Emily starts - the final North American to start
Aug 23, 2016 2:15 PM # 
Hammer:
Louise caught her 2 minute (Morrison) and 4 minute (Saeger) women at #9 (only 1.6km into the race)
Aug 23, 2016 2:26 PM # 
Becks:
Hah. The guy knows some flags. Well done guy.
Aug 23, 2016 2:31 PM # 
AZ:
I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that Louise will be second or third non-European. And top 25 is real possibility ...

Anyway, regardless - a great run by Louise!
Aug 23, 2016 2:33 PM # 
ColmM:
Second non-European is a very bold call, considering she's already behind an Aussie with Emily left to run.
First non-European is so bold you could almost call it impossible.
Aug 23, 2016 2:34 PM # 
AZ:
;0
That's why I editted my post. But not fast enough ;-)

I'd make a really crap announcer !
Aug 23, 2016 2:34 PM # 
ColmM:
Ah, you have changed your guess, that's fair.
Aug 23, 2016 2:50 PM # 
barb:
EMILY
Aug 23, 2016 2:50 PM # 
Hammer:
Emily Kemp takes the strong lead at #6. She had a small, small bobble at #4.
Aug 23, 2016 2:50 PM # 
carlch:
Yeah Emily
Aug 23, 2016 2:53 PM # 
barb:
Emily looking good on TV
Aug 23, 2016 2:55 PM # 
AZ:
Is this going to be something very special??
Holy macaroni...
Aug 23, 2016 2:56 PM # 
graeme:
One minute ahead of maya alm ?!
Aug 23, 2016 2:56 PM # 
Becks:
Just came back to my computer.....oh my word! Can I watch?! Go Emily!
Aug 23, 2016 2:59 PM # 
Hammer:
HOLY MACARONI!
Aug 23, 2016 2:59 PM # 
AZ:
Becks - Maja is still skipping ;-(
Aug 23, 2016 3:00 PM # 
Becks:
I know. He switched to belting, which I liked better!
Aug 23, 2016 3:03 PM # 
Hammer:
Kemp! over 2 minutes ahead of Alm at #13.
Aug 23, 2016 3:04 PM # 
Becks:
Oh my word! What a lead!

Eeeeeeeeeee!
Aug 23, 2016 3:04 PM # 
Becks:
I am not doing any work for the next hour.
Aug 23, 2016 3:05 PM # 
graeme:
Pretending to be Canadian...
Aug 23, 2016 3:05 PM # 
Sandy:
I'm on the edge of my seat.
Aug 23, 2016 3:06 PM # 
carlch:
GO EMily
Aug 23, 2016 3:07 PM # 
MJChilds:
I need to breathe. . .
Aug 23, 2016 3:07 PM # 
Sandy:
Oh to hear Per as Emily goes through the arena...
Aug 23, 2016 3:09 PM # 
Becks:
HOW ARE THEY NOT SHOWING THIS?!?!
Aug 23, 2016 3:09 PM # 
Nev-Monster:
Wow, go Emily!!
Aug 23, 2016 3:09 PM # 
Becks:
And how did they not know she was coming?!
Aug 23, 2016 3:11 PM # 
Sandy:
Emily changed her mind???
Aug 23, 2016 3:11 PM # 
barb:
Emily going left to 19
Aug 23, 2016 3:12 PM # 
AZ:
Only four people can have a faster time to the first radio.
(though my commentary skills are obviously lousy and this could be wrong ;-)
Aug 23, 2016 3:12 PM # 
Becks:
She has the space...power down that track Emily!
Aug 23, 2016 3:13 PM # 
barb:
Ida Bobach not at 6 yet?
Aug 23, 2016 3:13 PM # 
Hammer:
Nordberg and Bobach aren't skipping very well.
Aug 23, 2016 3:13 PM # 
AZ:
Okay - so it could come down to loeg 19. Emily takes the high route - haven't seen that one before. Let's hope it is the winning choice

(only 3 now)

I can hardly stand it - this is so exciting
Aug 23, 2016 3:14 PM # 
igor_:
wow Tove.
Aug 23, 2016 3:14 PM # 
barb:
Tove bobble
Aug 23, 2016 3:16 PM # 
Becks:
COME ON EMILY!!!! So close!
Aug 23, 2016 3:16 PM # 
AZ:
Bobach with big errors too.

Congrats to the commentary for having Emily from the last control...
Aug 23, 2016 3:17 PM # 
barb:
Congrats Emily!!!
Aug 23, 2016 3:20 PM # 
AZ:
Not that I like to cheer against anyone, but I wouldn't mind seeing Tove go a little bit off course ;-)
Aug 23, 2016 3:20 PM # 
MJChilds:
La Petite Canadien, you make us so proud.
Aug 23, 2016 3:21 PM # 
Mr O-memes:
Wow Nice! Go Emily!
Aug 23, 2016 3:22 PM # 
barb:
I like how you can watch Tove et al synched up with Emily and others, as Tove is running. Emily is just ahead of her at #9 now.
Aug 23, 2016 3:25 PM # 
J Anderson:
She eventually stood up, surrounded by cameras and people congratulating her, saw her brother Eric, and asked him how his race was. :)
Fingers crossed the other girls trip up... Just a bit ;)
Aug 23, 2016 3:25 PM # 
Becks:
Nooooo! Amazing last loop from Bagstevold.
Aug 23, 2016 3:26 PM # 
ToniIRL:
fingers crossed for her! whatever happens she's done amazingly well - can imagine there are Canadians (and people all over the world) cheering her on!
Aug 23, 2016 3:27 PM # 
Becks:
Gemperle close
Aug 23, 2016 3:30 PM # 
LKohn:
Awesome run by Emily!
Aug 23, 2016 3:31 PM # 
Charlie:
Emily was still in first at control 20, but lost two places on the run-in. Drat.
Aug 23, 2016 3:35 PM # 
Canadian:
Do the live stream announcers seriously not know who Tove is?
Aug 23, 2016 3:43 PM # 
pi:
Gonna be 4th for Emily. The potatoe medal, as the Czech say ;) What an amazing performance! But oh so close, if she just didn't turn around on the trail on the last loop it would've been a medal.
Aug 23, 2016 3:44 PM # 
J Anderson:
Jeff did you see that? You DO jump off cliffs in this sport.
Aug 23, 2016 3:45 PM # 
Becks:
Well done Tove, and smashing job from Emily. So much more to come!
Aug 23, 2016 3:45 PM # 
barb:
Yay, good runs all!
Shout out to Team USA, love you!!!
Aug 23, 2016 3:46 PM # 
barb:
ok back to work....
Aug 23, 2016 3:47 PM # 
sberg:
Fantastic race by Emily! 4th place.
Aug 23, 2016 4:02 PM # 
MJChilds:
This is a great day in Canadian and North American orienteering. Emily Kemp in #1 spot for much of the race and still #2 spot at last TV control. Wow. Wish so much I could be there to see her and give her a huge hug. Well done, Emily. So exciting to follow your race. So proud and happy for you.
Aug 23, 2016 4:10 PM # 
Hammer:
Holy Macaroni that was exciting! Podium finish for Emily.
Aug 23, 2016 4:16 PM # 
AZ:
Louise & Emily both had such great runs that they have both achieved pre-selection for WOC 2017 in the Middle! Top 40 is required.
Aug 23, 2016 4:21 PM # 
Cristina:
We are all so excited for Emily! I haven't met anyone more deserving of her current trajectory to the top of the orienteering elite. So, so awesome.
Aug 23, 2016 5:24 PM # 
Bash:
Fantastic job, Emily!! Not just today but all the years you've spent earning your place among the top elites in the sport.
Aug 23, 2016 6:15 PM # 
Hammer:
So here is a cool story I love and I hope my daughter doesn't mind me sharing here.

In 2008 my daughter and I decided to do some hiking and orienteering in the ALberta Rockies and foothills as a father and daughter family getaway. The O races were the barebones weekend and the organizers had brought out Emily Kemp from Ottawa to give a talk about the Junior World Champs. Emily did an awesome job with the talk and my daughter (sitting in the front row) soaked it all in. After the talk my daghter told me that she would like to do that race someday. Fast forward 8 years and Emma Waddington is on two relays teams with Emily Kemp at WOC this year. Emma is 6 years and 6 days younger than Emily and still a junior but totally got inspired by Emily so many years ago. This is a great example of why it is so important to have great role models interacting with the next generation of athletes in our sport.
Aug 23, 2016 7:33 PM # 
j-man:
Way to go! An inspiration.
Aug 23, 2016 9:00 PM # 
Hammer:
interview/story with Kempster
http://orienteering.org/emily-kemp-its-hard-to-bel...
Aug 24, 2016 10:04 AM # 
Mr O-memes:
Hej Canada,

Why dont you bid/organise woc in a few year. Kemp as a world champion on home soil would inspire a lot of people and would certainly draw media attention.
+ Beeing world champion on home soil is the best thing ever i guess.
Aug 24, 2016 10:22 AM # 
tRicky:
Would Europe be willing to give it up?
Aug 24, 2016 11:07 AM # 
Eriol:
Do like Henry Kissinger, just call Europe and ask!
Aug 24, 2016 12:19 PM # 
Nixon:
A JWOC outside Europe again would be nice too
Aug 24, 2016 2:30 PM # 
blairtrewin:
Everything I've heard indicates the IOF would love to get a bid from outside Europe for WOC - in fact, part of the rationale for the split WOC was to open up possibilities for hosting an urban WOC in countries without suitable forest terrain (especially in Asia), but none have bid.

As I'm sure I've said here before, we had a look at the numbers for Australia and concluded that to make it happen we'd probably need something in the order of EUR 500,000 in external money (either government or corporate). The split WOC model is a bit less daunting but still a major financial challenge.
Aug 24, 2016 2:32 PM # 
Nixon:
That seems about double what it cost in Scotland
Aug 24, 2016 2:53 PM # 
Mr O-memes:
Wow, 500.000 Euro is a lot of money. Could it be a possibility to organise WOC in 2 countries? e.g. Sprints in Seatle and forest in Vancouver? That could split costs over 2 countries.
Aug 24, 2016 3:05 PM # 
Nixon:
Moot point now, as all WOCs until the forest/sprint split have been assigned.
Aug 24, 2016 4:33 PM # 
graeme:
500kEu external sounds about right to me. Scotland was able to cross-subidise and use economies of scale for staff, employees from the 6-days. I can't see 5000 people showing up for spectator races outside Europe.
Aug 24, 2016 9:48 PM # 
ken:
Middle Distance photos
Aug 25, 2016 12:40 AM # 
tRicky:
Scotland would probably have more entries than, say, Australia, which would partly offset costs.

Hosting it in two countries might help split costs for the organisers but not for the competitors.
Aug 25, 2016 8:18 AM # 
Hammer:
Great pic of Emily Kemp and Thierry captured at WOC middle awards ceremony #GoCanadaGo

https://twitter.com/mxdgo78/status/768493813815996...
Aug 25, 2016 4:33 PM # 
Sandy:
Love that picture!

This discussion thread is closed.