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Discussion: Course setting on rotated map

in: Orienteering; General

Sep 1, 2016 2:39 AM # 
I'm setting up one of the maps for an end-of-year social carnival and have the following choices for an area that is elongated NE-SW:

- 1:4k scale, north lines parallel to sheet edge - space for description block, but map detail getting harder to read

- 1:3k scale, map image rotated 35degrees, on A4 landscape page to fit area on sheet, all symbols rotated on page to appropriate alignment with north, and all text reading west-east - no border on map

The first option is easy to handle, except that the event format is likely to be a series of micro-sprints so map legibility is a significant factor.

The second option satisfies the legibility issue, and OCAD11 course setting can handle the rotation (control numbers rotated north too) except I have not found a way to rotate the control description block in O11.

I have also tried adding a course before rotating the course file ie starting with north pointing up the screen, and the inconsistencies in OCAD make my brain hurt now eg control numbers I have manually adjusted to N are rotated, but automatically generated and unadjusted numbers do not rotate to align with N.

- haven't tried purple pen yet, don't have Condes.

Any suggestions or comments?
Sep 1, 2016 3:23 AM # 
You realise heads are going to explode, yes? :)

I take it you want the descriptions rotated 35°? I'd probably use PPen to generate the OCAD file (with descriptions) and then rotate the result in OCAD.
Sep 1, 2016 3:50 AM # 
I suggest putting N lines in approximately 72 degree angle. Don't explain. Make sure that alcohol is consumed before.
Sep 1, 2016 4:00 AM # 
the head explosion will come if we have to print the control descriptions on the back of the map - rotated so that the map orientation is consistent when the map is flipped, or parallel to page edge?

rotation in OCAD course-setting seems to be the problem - it doesn't handle all of the course-setting objects in a consistent fashion (why am I not really surprised?). Some get rotated, some get rotated in some circumstances, and some don't move at all while the world spins.

At least I have 3 months to sort things out - not a rush job yet, so I've got time to try out purplepen.
Sep 1, 2016 4:12 AM # 
this is part of the rotated map, with a sample course - image edge parallel to page edge (A4 landscape)
Sep 1, 2016 5:58 AM # 
print in the middle of A3 and cut it parallel to N lines (and recycle the extra paper!)
Sep 1, 2016 6:57 AM # 
next step - tried bringing in a raster (gif) image of description block and rotating to fit - partial success if printing directly from OCAD, but when I exported the course as a pdf all of the background, including OCAD background map, was rasterised so ended up with file 15 times larger that looked like the quality of maps I and others grumbled about last weekend ;-p
Sep 1, 2016 7:15 AM # 
I didn't think micro-sprints had control descriptions!

Also is this another one of those Newcastle maps with green triangles on it?
Sep 1, 2016 7:44 AM # 
not sure of final format, so trying to cover the options.

no green triangles on this map, but it is a 5-day carnival so we can find some just for you on another map (& there is MTBO in the afternoons so we could put a control on a green triangle right next to a single-track)
Sep 1, 2016 8:17 AM # 
I was wondering if it was for the 5 Days but I figured that was four months away, not three.

Am I disqualified for already seeing part of the map?
Sep 1, 2016 8:21 AM # 
tRicky, it depends which sheep station you are playing for.
The map has been used before, so a copy will be on display beforehand anyway ( and you can probably find it on routegadget)
Sep 1, 2016 9:08 AM # 
tRicky - PowA was having difficulties complying with your dodecahedron request so will you accept this as a substitute?
5 Day may be 4 months away but Controllers need to have things wrapped up earlier than that. ( says to Controller's controller!)
Sep 1, 2016 9:13 AM # 
try this:

rotate the map

set a course on the rotated map using ocad - put the cds somewhere outside the map (you will see why later)
course menu > export > export course maps
open exported course map it will have the map as a background- close the background map
File > import - import the map - choose place with offset and import symbols and colors. now you have the map and course all as one ocad file.

to rotate the cds - select all the cds by dragging around them (this is why you keep them away from the map) use the rotate tool. This will rotate all the numbers and symbols as well the boxes. Now drag around the cds and move to where you want hem on the map.

You still have the problem that the numbers next to the circles are the wrong angle . click on one of the numbers then >symbol >select >all

then use the 'indicate direction. . . ' tool to orient all those numbers to the north lines.

repeat for each course

a lot of work if you have a lot of courses but it should get the result you are after
Sep 1, 2016 9:20 AM # 
now that I think about it you probably don't need to do this bit:

close the background map
File > import - import the map - choose place with offset and import symbols and colors. now you have the map and course all as one ocad file.
Sep 1, 2016 9:27 AM # 
There are sheep stations involved? Okay now I'm bringing the good shoes.

Rob, close your italics!!!
Sep 1, 2016 9:59 AM # 
If I may be so bold,I thought he was just doing that in line with the thread theme
Sep 1, 2016 10:07 AM # 
thanks Rob - as you said a bit of work for all of the courses but the final result looks good on the sample course I have run through

couple of comments:
I imported background map into course file using real world coords - no problem, will avoid hassle of trying to get placement exact with mouse or remembering the offset value

can still cut circles and route lines if necessary in final combined map

I will try some options after I generate another couple of courses to see if there is a way to further simplify the work-dlow
Sep 1, 2016 10:08 AM # 
very clever Andy - took me a while to get it
Sep 1, 2016 10:12 AM # 
Yeah I guess you lose the control circle cutting once you change from a course setting file to normal ocad file. All I can suggest is you do the cutting before you export the course map.

OR I just remembered

click on a control circle - click on 'to graphics' the circle changes from a point object to a circular purple line which you can cut as you would any line

edit - obviously I misread your post - thought you said you COULDN'T cut the circles. So ignore the above
Sep 1, 2016 10:13 AM # 
As I said I dont think you need to import the map - try skipping that step

I made mistake saying 'with offset' I meant 'real world coord's' Sorry.
Sep 1, 2016 6:02 PM # 
Terje Mathisen:
Wouldn't it be relatively easy to export the normal (not rotated) courses (in Draft/Overprint mode) as 600 (or even higher) DPI GIF, then bring them into Photoshop/GIMP and rotate then print?

I.e. this way you would end up with a rotated extract of a normal map, with all symbols, control numbers and descriptions aligned to north.
Sep 1, 2016 6:21 PM # 
I've done this rotation thing in the past, but I'd have to be at my other computer to see how I did it (and it wasn't in 0CAD 11). I think I may have exported the course maps, then rotated them with the "rotate all symbols" option checked. I know I put notes in the map file for what to do.
Sep 1, 2016 6:21 PM # 
Did nobody notice the real elephant in the room:

- 1:4k scale, ...... but map detail getting harder to read

We are at the beginning of the next zoom in cycle. 1:2500 sprint, 1:5000 middle is coming to a club near you.
Sep 2, 2016 6:50 AM # 
I think we should ask the IOF MC for guidance on that.
Sep 2, 2016 9:32 PM # 
What J-J said. Export the courses from Condes or OCAD to ocd files. Open each course ocd file and import the blank map. Select all and rotate the map + courses with that "rotate all symbols" option. Do the single page print window option so you can see the print window. Adjust the rotation as needed. Repeat for all courses. I think we tend to specify a rotation, e.g., 35 degrees, rather than doing it by eye so each course looks consistent. Save-As a new file-name, like Saturday_M21.ocd. Obviously, this is the last step in the process. If you need to make changes you export from Condes/OCAD, and repeat the whole thing. It's pretty quick once you've done it a few times.
Sep 3, 2016 12:31 AM # 
Well said Nikolay and Juffy. Will no doubt be part of ISSOM203X. Anyone go to the IOF Mapping Conf?

This discussion thread is closed.