# Discussion: Parking garage mapping question

in: Orienteering; General

Mar 28, 2017 1:08 AM
How would you show this situation: If you enter the garage though the auto entrance on the west side in the illustration and go straight ahead, you will descend a level. The mapped "wall" straight ahead of you (indicated by purple arrow) isn't really there... but if you go down, you won't be on the same level as the exit on the opposite side. The reverse happens if you enter from the east and go straight ahead, you will go up one level and be unable to exit.

If you enter the garage from east or west and wish to pass through and out the other side, you must go left or right; going straight ahead takes you to a different level.

So, do you just show the imaginary wall mid-way on the ramp? Or is there some other symbol you can add to indicate that a runner proceeding straight would go above or below?
Mar 28, 2017 1:21 AM
We use a dotted black line to indicate a wall on a higher level that's not on a lower level. Trying to map three levels at once will only end in disaster though.
Mar 28, 2017 1:32 AM
rm:
Maybe a jagged cut line?

Multi level is a problem for urban mapping.
Mar 28, 2017 1:45 AM
I've mapped some crazy multi-level places in Seattle, so I have some experience.

I think I understand the situation: the entrance/exits are all on the same level, so you need to avoid the ramps. This is a 3-level parking garage, with the middle level having the entrance/exits. There's one ramp going down (from the west) into the lower level (where there's no exit). There's one ramp going up (from the east) to the top level (where there's also no exit).

Instead of a solid black line, I would probably use an uncrossable purple line instead. This would steer people away from going up/down the ramps, without confusing people with an uncrossable wall symbol on the map, but no actual wall in real life.

tRicky, do you have an example of the dotted black line? Is it similar to the dotted passageway symbol?
Mar 28, 2017 1:48 AM
The thing I always wonder about when I see questions like this, as well as headcam videos of people racing through occupied parking lots, is how long we are going to get away with running competitions through active parking areas before someone gets nailed by a car. And once that happens, what the insurance carrier is going to say/do when they look at the course plan.

Shouldn't we just purple over the parking garage and let competitors choose to go left or right of the entire structure?
Mar 28, 2017 1:57 AM
Yeah it's effectively the dotted tunnel symbol and here is our latest example (used on the weekend). You may need to zoom in a bit although too much and the map seems to disappear! Also I think I had it the wrong way around - it's a wall on a lower level that's not on a higher level. Maybe it's either or.
Mar 28, 2017 2:06 AM
Mapping it as a building seems like a reasonable idea to me.
Mar 28, 2017 3:57 AM
You may need to zoom in a bit although too much and the map seems to disappear!

That's google's annoying 45° tilt thing on satellite view - switch to the Map background and it won't do it.

Mar 28, 2017 4:32 AM
@ fossil and JJ: nobody will be parking in a pay garage early on Sunday morning when there are free spaces and lots on every surrounding street. So passing through the garage is an entirely reasonable route choice. The place has been almost empty every time I've been there, completely so on Sunday. I think it only really gets used for concerts and special events.

It is definitely a "main running level" problem - you want people to stay on the main level - no need to map the upper and lower levels; just to make it clear that they shouldn't go there.

I could see a similar problem becoming more complex - there was a garage at IU built on a slope, where if people went through, they'd have to use the ramp to get out the other side. I did end up mapping that one as a solid building, both for complexity of representing the "main level" and safety, since it was in active use at the time of the event.

Keep the suggestions coming - purple line might be good, except it officially indicates a flagged barrier. Maybe a couple mm wide patch of the purple screen for a temporarily out of bounds area?
Mar 28, 2017 4:44 AM
rm:
Why not show the whole ramp as out of bounds? No reason to go there, is there?
Mar 28, 2017 4:59 AM
..Multi level is a problem for urban mapping.

Not only urban. As an exercise I've tried to map a coastal defence prepared for a Russian invasion scare in 1880-something. A fascinating spot with places for guns, ammo storage, tunnels, observation posts, etc. Up to 3 levels. All the more delicious for the fact that the historical nutters haven't "preserved" it (ie kept people out).

Nothing to offer except confirmation of the difficulty of the task. Particularly hard where the runnable zone on each level doesn't have anything like the same shape. Multi-storey buildings are at least possible with a multi-layer map.

Mar 28, 2017 5:09 AM
Mike - so is the running level the same all the way around this particular garage? (ie. it's not built on a slope where you enter on different levels depending on which side you're on?)
Mar 28, 2017 5:36 AM
As an exercise I've tried to map a coastal defence prepared for a Russian invasion scare in 1880-something.

The Russians attempted to invade in 1880 or that's when you mapped it? I mean I know you're quite old but I didn't know that ISOM was around in those days.
Mar 28, 2017 9:32 AM
Yes it was great in those pre-specification days, could do what I liked. Used a scale of 1:15840, that came in for a bit of criticism from the inch-to-the-milers. I rode to the site on my single-speed fixie, tho I had fat tires fitted, getting there was pretty technical. No paved single-track in those days! Wore knickerbockers and long socks. With braces, have they come round again too?
Mar 28, 2017 9:49 AM
undy:
I think knickerbockers just got banned from United. (United, they broke my Taylor Lute)
Mar 28, 2017 11:11 AM
@ Juffy, correct. Same level all the way around. The only change in elevation are the sloping ramps to higher and lower levels. Anyone who looks at their surroundings before entering should be smart enough to know they don't want to go up or down.
Mar 28, 2017 12:43 PM
As a runner I'd say purple OOB on the ramps would be most clear at speed, instead of trying to work out some interpretation of a wall and multi-levels.
Mar 28, 2017 12:57 PM
Yes, if there's no going into the upper or lower levels then that would be the best option.
Mar 28, 2017 1:09 PM
Yeah - purple on the ramp if you want to be technically correct, impassable wall somewhere between the two E-W lines if you want to be non-compliant but blatantly obvious that you're not getting anywhere by going up it. :)