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Discussion: Entry deadline on Friday April 21 for MNOC 3 day Team Trials

in: USA & Canada - WOC/JWOC Team Trials OUSA National 3 day meet (Apr 28–30 - Saint Paul, MN, US)

Apr 18, 2017 8:29 PM # 
iriharding:
Entry fees will go up by $5/day for the MNOC 3 day National Meet with OUSA Team Trials at Como/Interstate/Mille Lacs Kathio this Friday at 11:59 pm Central Time. Team Triallists especially are asked to register before that time in order to be properly placed in segregated start blocks and avoid penalty fee.

Detailed course notes are expected to be published by Friday.

Procrastinator specials and late entries at much higher fees available til 4/27 6:00pm !
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Apr 20, 2017 3:46 PM # 
eddie:
Hey Ian, are team trials candidates *required* to register by the early Apr 21 deadline (tomorrow)? It says on the AP event site and in the other thread that start lists/times will be posted on Wed Apr 26, which is before the Apr 27 6 PM "pre-registration" deadline. Thanks.
Apr 20, 2017 7:45 PM # 
iriharding:
Yes. They are required by the OUSA team management to register by the 4/21 deadline. There has been an expectation laid down that OUSA team members are timely in their actions. If you register late MNOC cannot guarantee that you will be able to get into the team trials start blocks.
Apr 21, 2017 6:11 AM # 
eddie:
Thanks, glad I asked. Were the ESC's planning to tell anyone that the early deadline is *the* deadline for the trials? Note that the US Trials are open to anyone meeting the eligibility requirements in the selection criteria, not just current members of the National Teams (although the Jr team is effectively restricted to the JNT by both the scoring system and the 2017 JNP application as discussed in this old AP thread). I also know that the Sr team and ESC considered restricting WOC team eligibility to standing team members only (i.e. themselves), but fortunately chose not to do that...this year.

I had a look at the current registration list (as of 4/19/2017) for the TT. There are 116 total entries. 32 of those are registered as Trialers - in at least one race. Here are the Men's and Women's trialers lists as best I could parse them:

Women
Men

There are only 3 Canadians currently registered for the trials - 3 Sr Men.

Technically the US juniors are also eligible for the Sr WOC teams, provided they are running the same courses at the trials and/or file petitions as-per the Sr team selection criteria. I can't find any info about the intended course breakdowns for each group. I hope they are running the same courses.

Currently there are only 3 Sr women registered. If no more register and the Jrs are on a different course, its likely that these three will qualify automatically (at least 2 will, even if they DNF all the races). Only 3* of the 8 women named to the Sr National Team are currently registered for the Team Trials (*Isabel was named to both the Jr and Sr National Teams). To their credit, all 7 of the JNT and one JDT women are already registered.

There are 11 Sr Men registered, with 7 of 12 from the Sr National Team (also Eric and Wyatt are listed as intending to compete but have not registered yet, which would bring the total to 9 of 12 I think). For the junior men, 7 are registered - all from the JNT which is no surprise. However there are 12 on the JNT right now. The JNT Athlete agreement, item 6, specifically requires "prioritization of the JWOC trials over other obligations." I think the other 5 need to get registered (or risk relegation?)

I'd really love to see some Jrs who are not on the JNT running at the trials, but given the 100-point "team bonus," doing so would be utterly futile. Still, I'm hoping someone will try. I think a strong grievance case can be made even now, before the races have taken place. I never thought I'd say this, but I hope at least some of those Jrs will petition for a spot.

23 hours left to register for the 2017 team trials. Another week for non-trialers.
Apr 21, 2017 11:23 AM # 
iriharding:
Eddie. Thank you for your comments . MNOC is only hosting . Team management would need to reply to the questions you have asked in regard to team matters. Hopefully they will do so in a timely manner since the deadline is very close .
Apr 21, 2017 6:52 PM # 
schirminator:
Hey Eddie,
The courses break down as follows

Sprint Short: Junior women and senior Women are on the same course.
Sprint Long: Junior and senior men are on the same course.

Middle and Long: Senior men are on Blue
Junior men and Senior women are on Red
Junior women are on Green.

So I think based on this that juniors could make the team in the sprint and petition for a relay spot. The tough thing this year is that WOC and JWOC are back to back and its not optimal to do one and then the other. It would be tough for a junior to run WOC and then JWOC. Next year we may work harder to put them on the same courses if the timing of both events is better.

Can't answer for the Senior team or Canadians but for the junior men they have either not signed up yet or have communicated a significant reason for not attending.

In terms of juniors not in the JNP there will be some their who decided personally they are not ready to try out for JWOC but may in a few years and are competing on other courses. I would hope there would be more juniors not on JNT competing as well. The petition process is clear that anyone not JNT can submit a petition. I think anyone who showed up at trials and raced well would be put on the JWOC team with a petition if they are not on JNT. I have yet to here a case where someone is not trying out because of the 100 points for JNT. Be great to know if there is one.
Apr 21, 2017 8:10 PM # 
jjcote:
What's the problem with running both WOC and JWOC? Finland is pretty conveniently close to Estonia, so it's not a big travel problem. Is running a couple of races really going to wear somebody out so much that they can't run again the following week?
Apr 21, 2017 8:12 PM # 
BorisGr:
jjcote>> Yes, of course. A week of WOC or JWOC races by itself is already exhausting. Planning to peak for two weeks of races in a row is a very difficult challenge that not many athletes are able to achieve. And, while the countries are close, the terrain types are quite different, making it challenging to prepare for both equally well.
Apr 21, 2017 8:17 PM # 
jjcote:
How many races would a junior be running in this "week of WOC races"? A sprint and a relay? Or maybe just a sprint?
Apr 21, 2017 9:27 PM # 
jjcote:
And then immediately says it would be tough to do it.
Apr 22, 2017 2:02 AM # 
schirminator:
Hey JJ I just said it was tough not impossible unicouraged or anything else. May not have come across this way but it was intended as a compliment. It's an individual athletes choice what they think they can manage and what's to much based on many factors.
Apr 22, 2017 5:03 AM # 
eddie:
When the Jr and Sr team trials are separate events (as they have been in the past), the Jrs could realistically try for both teams, and it was to their benefit and the Sr team's benefit for them to run in the WOC trials. Its good practice and experience for the Jrs, and more pressure on the Srs. I appreciate the efficiency of combining both trials, but with the separate course structure the juniors are forced to choose. I hope the juniors appreciate the opportunity that the sprint race offers them at this year's trials.

Given the (franky, absurd) scoring system imposed on the juniors this year - with the entire field of candidates pre-selected by the JTESC - any junior not on the JNT would be better off simply skipping the JWOC trials altogether and running in the Sr WOC trials instead. At least that offers some small possibility of controlling their own destiny without being reduced to begging for a spot via petition. Begging is demeaning.
Apr 22, 2017 10:29 AM # 
iriharding:
One request: This thread was started by MNOC to assist those wishing to take part in the 3 day event . Can you please start a new thread to deal with any Team selection questions/ issues separate from the 3 day event logistics threads. We will be issuing other time critical information and wish it to be clearly visible . Thank you

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