Discussion: They're good venues, Will.

This pleases me immensely

St. Ed's is a D, and when you consider the permitting fees, it's probably an F.

Moran is, by far, the best mapped terrain in western Washington. Heck, it's even better than Sumas, in my opinion. But it's so hard to get to, access is way more restricted now, and onsite logistics aren't easy. It's no wonder the club hasn't used it in 20 years.

Speaking of memes, orienteering, and this year's Winter Series schedule....

https://www.facebook.com/OrienteeringMemes/photos/...

Good evaluations. I think I was that course designer for that last Putney event so thanks for the thumbs up. Whidbey has some ok terrain but it takes a skilled course designer to utilize it well. Last year at Ebey, I was a co-course designer and let my co-designer take the advanced courses and they could have been much improved (one of the times where you want to give feedback corrections, but still let them "own it"). I'm kind of curious from a course designer standpoint. Do you mind a long mindless running leg if it can get you to more scenic part of the map (i.e. Lincoln Park and St. Eds hill climbs)? With our Winter series maps sometimes it's hard to design a course without that. Most of our maps are really sprint terrain, but occasionally you can design in some longer legs that are somewhat challenging.

I am excited about the venues because it’s almost an exact repeat of my inaugural Winter O season two years ago. I barely knew what I was doing then and wasn’t able to finish courses toward the end of the season. So I am curious to see how I may have improved! Watch out Fire Mountain!

Fire Mountain course designers consider themselves challenged! ;-)

Do any of these maps raise concerns about updating? I'm seeing course designers working on that with Jim as we go, and Jon's going to update Fire Mtn, but any others that might be worth nudging designers to get out to earlier than usual?

Well, it's too late if anything needs to be updated at Magnuson.

North Seatac could probably use a freshening, as it's a map that relies a lot on vegetation mapping, and seems like thing grow and get cut a lot in ~10 years.

St. Ed's and Bridle Trails don't matter much since they are trails only.

There were some issues with Putney Woods last time with some very broadly mapped vegetation that was an issue with a certain control on the advanced courses (it penalized better navigators who tried attacking through the vegetation).

Lincoln Tree Farm is one of those kids who always finds trouble. You need to watch him all the time or else things can get out of control really fast.

Green River apparently needs some work... at least I heard some rumblings about that. Nobody has asked me to map it, though, so I'm not sure who's taking care of it (if the campus is what needs work, then I'm kinda surprised that I haven't been asked).

Fire Mountain is mostly fine, but there's that one trail that was ridiculously overgrown last time.

South Seattle is where the bonus day is, and this one will definitely need an update because the large center-of-campus construction project should be all done. I've alerted the board to this one, and it makes the most sense for me to do it, since my mapping files have the architectural drawings to the construction already in there.

Do you mind a long mindless running leg if it can get you to more scenic part of the map (i.e. Lincoln Park and St. Eds hill climbs)?

I subscribe to Dave Tallent's course design philosophy of the 3 F's (fun, fast, fair) and 3 T's (tempo, technique, terrain). I don't necessarily mind a long running leg, but I would if it were "mindless". If there's a long leg, give me some route choice at least. Or if the route choice is relatively simple, give it to me early enough in the race where I can start planning ahead. And when the long simple leg is done, give me several super-short legs to mix up the tempo a little bit.

Last year had some things that designers should avoid at both parks you mention. There was that mindless loooooong road run at the end of the Lincoln Park event (so late that there was nothing left to plan). And then last time at St. Ed's we were sent down the lake... twice.

As far as scenic parts of the map are concerned, this is something that I'm definitely conscious of at Salmon La Sac. I think it was in 2014 at Salmon La Sac where I had that control on top of that exposed rock face that we'd never used before. It was a bit of distance to get runners all the way out there, so I had long legs leading into and out of that area, but I had three controls (two super short legs) there.

Magnuson has been updated, designers and Jim have been talking. Jon’s doing Fire Mtn. It sounds like N. SeaTac is getting spot updates as we go.

I’ll ping the Putney Woods team and Green River to make sure the designers get out early and take a look. Totally understand what you’re saying about LTF, I think we all know that one needs a good look!

Speaking of LTF, if the googles are current it looks like they've done a major clearcut in the SE corner (47.001445, -122.346353).

Oh, goody...I feel like it's too early to even start messing with that one, though. So many more months in which to cut trees!