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Attackpoint - performance and training tools for orienteering athletes

Discussion: Item #2

in: iansmith; iansmith > 2017-12-07

Dec 11, 2017 10:24 PM # 
Pink Socks:
There was a second rules change in which local event starts for club dues were modified to allow for events that have multiple races in the same day and are organized as a single event (e.g. Seattle's Sprint Tournament). It creates flexibility by giving two options for how local event start dues are computed.

Is the rules change published somewhere? Since my event is called out specifically here, I'd like to understand what the change is. Clare sent out exploratory emails on this subject to the clubs a few months ago, and I replied with specifics for SART, which had been paying an O-USA start fee for each of the 6 races (including the mini sprint), which totaled $9 per person.

My last understanding with Clare was that after the rule change, SART would still be paying the same amount, because there was enough of a schedule break between each start window (several hours) and we use multiple venues.

In other words, where is the line drawn between single-starts and multiple starts? I admit that it's a bit fuzzy. At SART 2017 we had 3 Saturday races at 3 different "venues", but all 3 venues were adjacent, on the same master map, and shared the same event HQ. So is that one big venue? Schedule-wise, where is the line drawn between one race and multiple?

(I should also mention that I was happily paying the $9 per person start fees and I didn't ask O-USA to re-structure anything. But since it has been restructured, I'd like to know how it'll affect my event budget going forward).

Thanks for your work on the board!
Dec 11, 2017 10:42 PM # 
Hi, Patrick - a link to the adopted rule change is here (and I will amend my original post).

My example of your tournament is a somewhat incorrect, as the three criteria for counting starts for club dues for a multi-race event are (1) same day, (2) same venue, and (3) single entry. As you point out, SART has all its events at different venues. A more realistic and financially constrained example would be a school orienteering demonstration where participants run multiple small courses (e.g. a maze-O). The standard start fee could be prohibitively onerous for clubs to sustain these.

It should be noted that the rule change is designed to give flexibility. Clubs can use whichever of the two options they wish. If SART had multiple races at the same venue, then I think it would be reasonable to use start point (2). My interpretation of the rule would be that the example you give - of 3 races on the same master map with the same event HQ could be interpreted as one "event start" under dues rule 2.

Club dues are confirmed with the director of membership and accounting (currently Robin, but we are transitioning in early 2018). Sandy Fillebrown is the de facto current "director of membership." Clubs must document how they are allocating their starts, of course, such that the director of membership is satisfied.

Ultimately, these multirace events are a minority of our starts; I voted for the rule change to remove any possible financial obstacle to holding these, especially for youth. I don't expect it to have much effect on OUSA finances.
Dec 11, 2017 10:43 PM # 
@Pink_Socks - did you see my note today about the Patriots? I hope you were as appreciative as I am.
Dec 11, 2017 11:22 PM # 
Pink Socks:
Thanks for the quick response.

Basically, it seems like SART would be a 'tweener event in terms of start payment. Sometimes we'd use option #2 (definitely for the two Sunday races), and sometimes we'd use option #1.

I still think the definition of "venue" is a little fuzzy.

SART 2015, Example #1
Time Trial at Green Lake Park and Round #1 at Woodland Park. Two different parks, but they are adjacent, originally mapped together, but then split into two map files for the race. They have the same land manager (Seattle City Parks) and we used one permit. But the start/finish areas were ~1.8km away from each other.

SART 2015, Example #2
Round #4 at Shoreview Park and Round #5 at Shoreline CC. One park and one campus. Adjacent, and on the same map. Two different land managers, so two different permits. Round #4's course used both permitted areas. Round #5's just one. Both used the same staging/finish area.

SART 2017
Time Trial at College Place, Round #2 at Edmonds CC, Round #3 at Lynnwood Golf Course. Three different land managers, three permits, but all adjacent and mapped together, but then split into three map files for the race. One event HQ for all three, but each had a different start and finish location.

And then to make this more confusing, Round #1 was at Lynndale Park, which was a fourth land manager, a fourth permit, but just 560m north of the other three. It was mapped with the others, too, and split into its own map file. This one obviously had different start and finish locations from the others, but we still sort of staged everything from the event HQ of the other three.
Dec 11, 2017 11:25 PM # 
Pink Socks:
I saw your note, yes. But I skimmed it. At this point, whenever I see you write about the Patriots, I tend to gloss over the details, just like whenever I see something from ChitownClark.

In other words, you win. You've bludgeoned me with so much Patriots that I just react with apathy.
Dec 11, 2017 11:26 PM # 
Yeah, agreed that the notion of venue is ambiguous. I'm not a rules expert; I think Clare has great enthusiasm for interpreting such rules. From the Board's perspective, this was a solution to a problem of youth leagues holding intro events but becoming swamped by entry fees. I think a bit of ambiguity is built into the rules to allow some flexibility (and avoid excessively long documents). We can clarify as needed if concerns arise.
Dec 14, 2017 11:46 PM # 
So the Corn Maze Champs is a clear-cut example of a single event, right? Three races on the same day in the same maze (plus the non-orienteering trail-O and party activities).

Hmm... Patriots don't seem to have made the playoffs yet...

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