Discussion: Too much time at controls

After following some orienteers on courses lately, I've noticed a trend of a considerable amount of time wasted in the vicinity of the control. That time wasted seems to me to fall into categories:

1. Punch routine: from sighting of the feature/control through punching/drinking.
2. Control exiting: from the punch until the runner moves decisively in the direction of their intended route to the next control.

In talking about control exiting, I find it is inextricably linked with route planning and planning ahead. When someone is caught at a control and they haven't planned ahead (we've all been there, huh?), they tend to either stand at the control & plan, or stumble a short way in some direction, then slow or stop while route planning.

What punch routines or control exiting techniques have others found to be effective (first) and fast (second)?

Good question. I did my first true orienteering race today (i've done a couple of Adventure Races, but there you get the map much earlier). As I progressed through the race, I spent more time setting the compass or route plan at each control, rather than just running off. So I would add on, does time at control change for a beginner and an advanced orienteer? My plan (as a beginner) was basically to set myself up for the next control, rather than wasting time getting lost (so wasting a little time getting ready, rather than risking wasting a lot of time getting lost).

15+ years of experience talking:

I check the code on the way in (after I've spotted the flag but before I reached it), though when using e-punch I sometimes check after, and ALWAYS know which way I plan to leave the control (without having to set a bearing)--i.e., left, right, straight.

It's important NOT to stand at a control and give its location away to other competitors, or get in their way of accessing the punch. (...other than to take a drink, though I carry my own water if needed so I don't have to waste time there or get turned around).

I don't do more planning ahead than that, but then I'm not that fast anyway, and saving the "next leg" planning until after I leave the previous control doesn't slow me down much. I can glance at my map and get the big picture and find a suitable attack point, and then fine tune my route when I'm on my way.

Aside from taking water and the act of punching, there is no reason that I can think of to spend any more time at a control than at any other feature. In other words, just think of them as another feature in the long line O from start to finish. JMHO.

Hey John, I think it's a common observation. The BAOC website even has an article on it.
http://www.baoc.org/wiki/Training/Don't_Loiter_at_...

However, I don't think people (particularly beginners) should obsess about this subject. I think Ryan is absolutely right in his approach. In my opinion, if you find yourself at a control and don't have a plan, it is better to stop and make one than to dart off in the wrong direction.

For myself, I strive to run smoothly throughout the course. Any time I stop moving or even slow to a walk probably means I made a mistake. If I have to hesitate leaving a control, it is probably because I failed to plan properly, or I got disoriented on the approach. My brain got overwhelmed on the approach, and I'm unlikely to have a solid plan for leaving. (When you start setting advanced courses, you can use this knowledge to trip people up)

If you find yourself needing to hesitate leaving the control - go ahead an do it. But consider it a dignostic indication that you could be preparing better.

Things that lead to success include: (1) Fully visualizing the control site in advance: not just the control feature, but surrounding features too. (2) Planning routes one leg in advance. (3) Planning your the entry and exit technique. (Will my first exit steps be toward - a direction, feature, contour, uphill, downhill?)

PS. Although I prefer constant forward motion, I do know some very good orienteers who physically stop when they read the map. This is just as effective for them, because they memorize longer chunks and then don't have to glance at the map as often. Maybe stopping at a control is ok for them

Most of the above is sensible. Randy I guess mentions what punching is to an elite orienteer, merely another point on what is a continuous run. For mere mortals the more complicated the navigation on the preceding leg the more likely the concept of looking for an "exit feature" has been overwhelmed by the need to locate the control first! However, locating the controls successfully is emminently more sensible than trying to "read ahead" and consequently missing the control!

As your flow and map-reading on the move improves you will find that what JanetT says occurs a bit more - although it is probably better to think in terms of 1) exit feature 2) up/down/along 3) compass direction rather than left a bit/right a bit. Often approaching a control doesn't go to plan and having "punch then go Left" in your head may be inverted compared to "punch then go down hill to the south of the large pair of boulders".

A side note - I have mentioned this before I post it here anyway. Instead of following you can easily use GPS to measure how much time is used for all sort of hesitating and decision making while standing still.

An example, six first controls of a race, no hesitating, just 1..2 sec spent for punching:
image1
image2
image3
image4
image5
image6
image7

But then about 20 sec lost for hesitating before a control (22:03):

image8

An other example, 2=control, 3=hesitating & making route choice, 4= more hesitating & finally decision to turn right, 6=maybe a little bit more hesitating before hitting the path.

image 9

One dot = one second, so you can count how many second was used at a certain place for figuring out something. Background image is irrelevant - dots on white is enough, if you have paper map on your hand. Easy, fast and simple.

What i have learnt to do over the years is mostly reliant on reading ahead in the race. I try to keep about 3 controls ahead visable on the map and look at fetures to use for the coming legs so when i leave a control i have a plan already. Long legs can be used to judge the rest of the course and make a smart desision.
When entering a control site always know what direction you need to move off in, even this saves seconds which add up quickly.
On a sprint map u dont have time to read far ahead so just exiting correctly is greatly important.
Still i do catch myself only cheaking exit directions at a control site, although this is normally on longer courses when i get tired

And don't underestimate the power of your subconscious.

I try to take an overall look at the entire course during my first leg, with a bit more time on any difficult areas. Then I fold up the map and concentrate on finding #1.

Using this technique, I've always found that each succeeding leg seems familiar when I finally get to it; I spend less time at controls. And route choice, catching feature and attack point decisions somehow come easier, if I've given my subconscious time to mull it over in the background.

'Course that may be why I often have problems on the first leg too....

Sprint courses have taught me the value (and need) to look ahead. Especially in park or campus sprints, the 'yellow' legs (run to corner, turn right) let me plan ahead and I'm much smoother exiting a control.

In regular orienteering, I can only do this on a trail - and it really does help - like Clark (where were you Saturday?), I'll spot a couple challenging legs coming up. In the woods, even following a major handrail such as a reentrant, I'm too afraid of loosing contact to afford time to look ahead.

At the 2005 US champs in Bend, I attended a talk by Ted de St Croix in which he said that he rarely, if ever, looks ahead. He believes that anything you do on a course that distracts you from the task of finding your current control is a bad thing.

Ted said that he always walks (or at least moves slower) into a control once he spots it. He spends that time refolding the map and planning the exit direction from the control. He can then punch and get right back up to speed again afterwards.

I can never look ahead on a course, for the same reason as Rick. I remember being relieved to hear that at least one world-class orienteer doesn't do much looking ahead either.

I've often seen inexperienced people go into a full-out sprint when they spot a control flag. No point. Once you spot the flag, you've started the next leg, with the detail that you have to go by the flag to punch. So start figuring out how you're going to the next control, at an appropriate speed.

The only time I do any serious looking ahead is in Goat events where you have to make a skip decision. Other than that, I'm focused on what I expect in the next 200m or so. I've never come across a leg so complicated that it took more than 10-15 seconds of standing still to figure out what route to take. On the vast majority of legs, the route to the next control (or at least the initial direction) can be planned while approaching the current control.

I wrote an article on getting through controls last spring, including some drills to improve. Unfortunately, my website is down right now, so it won't help to link to it. I'll post the link when the site is back up.

I had to reread J-J's comment a few times before I got what he was saying. I think he's right in that sprinting in rarely makes sense, but I'd add that one mistake is to relax too much when you see the flag. I used to see the flag, relax, and start walking---doing what others here have said, planning the next leg. Now I try to get in and out at a speed that makes sense. If it's fast running, I run. If it's bad footing, I pay attention to that to avoid a fall.

I'd guess that 80% of the time, I only know the direction I need to go after I punch. As I'm coming in to the control, my map is aligned, I can see the next connection line, and I'm able to point my hand in the direction I need to go---I know I'm going *that* way.

The other 20% of the time I've spent all my attention getting to the control and I have no idea where to go. In that case, my priority is to visually find the next leg on the map, align it "away from me" and then look at the compass and spin around until I'm pointed the right direction. Basically, I'd rather be walking blindly in the direction of the next control while I'm looking at the map rather than standing there helping my competition.

The one skill I practice a lot is what I call "flash reading a leg". Whenever I get a map with a course (or look at Routegadget), I try to force myself to glance at each leg and make a route choice in a few seconds. I look at going straight along the line; I look for routes right, and routes left. If it looks complicated, I look wide right and wide left. After the shortest possible time, I say, "I'd go this way." It's important to mentally commit to a route. Then I take all the time I need to visualize the terrain and see if I missed something that would make me change my committed route choice. I find the more I do this, the less I miss when I glance at the map.

I got the idea to practice flash reading after a mass start race a long time ago. I remember running and walking, trying to read my map, while all of these old-timers were passing me. It was absolutely clear that they were getting a lot of information in a short time, and I wasn't. Now that I'm a marginal old-timer, I notice that I pass a lot of newer orienteers standing around the flag (and then get passed back once they finally pick a route).

If you start to pick the right route all the time, then shorten the time you let yourself look at the map. The ultimate test is to read the map while running. I think flash reading is a necessary skill to get useful amounts of information from a map while you're running. {Full disclosure---I'm a lot better reading the map while running than I used to be, but it's still a struggle for me. I'm in amazement of people who can do it well. If there is one benefit I've had from running sprints, it's this.)

Something very similar to the previous post.
Before O ringin this year i attended a training camp that the Spanish national team was at. There coach had them look at specific legs on a course for about 5 seconds and then cover the map and then decide which route they would take. the team compared routes and then after running the course compared times.
This was valuable as it helped u realise which quick desitions were correct and when you need to do more planning for a leg.

I don't train it a lot, but every month or so I'll do a psuedo memory-O. It's not a real memory O because a) I keep the map with me (I just don't look at it much) and b) I read it on the run. I basically give myself the first 15-20 seconds of the leg to figure out the whole leg and then run the rest from memory. The idea is that from that point on, I want to be using the map for fine navigation, not route planning. Refusing to look at the map forces me to get all the necessary information early in the leg.

Another way to look at this problem is that you need to be proactive not passive from the time you start runnig each leg.

When I was a kid the coach gave us the 10 commandments of Orienteering. We were getting our ears pulled really hard if you can not recite these even in your sleep :). I'll try to find them somewhere in my maps and post them verbatum here (understand, I'm to get my ears pulled right now... good thing I am far from my coach) Anyway I am probably doing most of them as a habit now (with the exception of distance measuring and pace counting)

So the order of what I do is something like:

1. Punch control
2. If the control was spiked ( found with no problem) I already know which way to go (see further down).
If not, I probably came from other direction than what I was expecting so I do the following: I know the direction of the next control (the red line going from one circle to the next :) ) To remeber it easy I am using keywords like: North, little bit left of North, half way right of North (meaning NW). Then at the time of punching I look at the compass or even at the time of sprinting to the control (yes I run my ass off, it is one of the little times on a orienteering course where you can blank out and relax your mind and just run.) I look at the compass and see where the needle's North is and note which way I need to go for the next control ......Seems confusing? It is not. take a map and a compass and try it :)
3. I run following my route choise selected while running to the previous control.
4. At some point, usially early in the leg I note the contol number and the description of the control if it is not clear from the map circle location. Next I look at the exit direction noting something like that: if it is featureles using directions 'left of north' 90 degrees right of north (meaning west) if contol is on some linear feature (reentrant, spur etc..) it is much easier then I use something like: 'down the reentrant', cross the road 45 degrees to the left.
Important thing is I always try to have this information early in the leg. Then if I still have time in the current leg I coose my route for the next control. If not I am already approaching the control, but at least know which direction I need to go exiting the control.
5. Closing at my control (preferrably spiking it, but not usually the case :) ) going back to step 1.

Some years ago (10+), before I ever tried orienteering, but had started AR, a coworker loaned me a small book on orienteering. I took the liberty of reading it that day at work:-). One thing that has always stuck with me from that book is that one should always "race through a control". It probably gave many of the points others have stated above to do just that, but I just remember the paradigm shift in my mind from those words.

This has been my most valuable lesson in taking from orienteering in to the world of AR (other than being able to navigate). Learning this prior to even trying orienteering, has helped me not develop that bad habit (but not others...) of standing around controls or fooling myself in to thinking I have reached some sort of "mini?" finish line that I now deserve to rest at (relevant to manned CPs in AR or transition areas as well).

relevant to manned CPs in AR or transition areas as well

Yes, you can waste incredible amounts of time at those points. A similar such "break" in the racing flow can happen at water controls in orienteering. I avoid the problem altogether by running with a hydration pack. No break in concentration and I can drink when I want to, rather than when the course setter thinks I might want to.

This is a really helpful discussion. Although I have heard many of these things before, what cedaercreek wrote about route choice simplified the task in my mind and gave a repeatable process to follow.
"look at going straight along the line; I look for routes right, and routes left. If it looks complicated, I look wide right and wide left. After the shortest possible time, I say, "I'd go this way."
It may seem very basic to most here, but I think it will help my approach to route choice.

It comes down to simple conclusion in my opinion - better orienteering skilz you have less time you will spend at control. I don't see a point of rushing out of control before you have a clear plan for your leg.

As I kid I used to do what JJ mentioned - sprinted to the flag once I saw it. You got to keep in mind that I considered that as minor "miracle" that "I found a flag!!!" back then...

Then my coach told me that once you see the flag you got to start planning for your next leg.

However everything starts at start shoot. My coach insisted that you got to plan as many legs ahead as possible while you still standing there. Ideally entire course, not just first and second leg. Your brain is still full of oxygen and your decision making skilz when you are not running are much higher then when you are running hard. If you have advanced skilz it should not take more then 5 seconds to get an idea of how each leg should be executed. Even if you cannot decide on certain route choices for some legs right away it is still good to get at least an idea of what lays ahead leg by leg.

This does require good visual memory which is must for advanced orienteer. Advantage having seen all legs of your course in starting shoot is that it will reduce your stoppage time at each control.

But I am reminded of something Peter Gagarin once said, when we were orienteering in bland, boring terrain (I won't say where). It was something like, "In a place like this, you don't look ahead to plan your routes, because then you'd know that there's nothing to look forward to".

to jj's above, could be pine barrens? could look forward to the finish:)


jj's Pawtuckaway course, "THE MEGA", 9/11/05, 203 controls still provides an excellent opportunity to practice control picking (circles often touching, complicated terrain), in and out, continual map reading/adjusting, need to know how to get away w/o time loss. I was there the other day, did some 35 control sites with increasingly efficiency. Would
have been a better training option had there been a punch. Seems like thumb compass O could work better in this kind of situation. I've not used same. E-punch allows one to pay better attention to visualizing the departure whereas manual does not.

How many consider themselves "perfect" punchers: punch marks easy to see, ie, results crew does not have to hold the card to light of day (for salvation). Tidy punching can save the day. I've not been one. Back in '98, at Elk Neck SP (MD) , I punched too lightly at some control on a Sun. Left, in belief that I was first, but was assigned "mp" - I was not there/learned later. Steve Tarry (I think in second place), to his immensely honest credit:)*, asked to see my card & noted the unseen pinhole & had me reinstated.

*think sub-prime....

For those rare legs where a precise bearing is required, when do you place the compass on the map and set up the compass' arrow: before or after coming at the previous control?

If you're approaching a flag you can start setting up your next leg's compass bearing (if you need it). Why would a precise bearing be required when leaving a control, though? Are there no features (ideally, terrain/contour features) to guide you away?

Or use a thumb compass and forget all that "precise bearing" stuff. :-) Okay, so I'm prejudiced...

In two B meets this year, I encountered consecutive legs void of contour features, defined vegetation boundaries, trail intersections etc. The controls themselves were essentially bingo controls.

Any chance you could post scans of those legs? Might be interesting to see what people would suggest for ways to approach them.

In response to above posts, i think that you have to take bearings only after leaving the control, if u are taking them before there is way to many mistakes and slight errors you can make as you leave the sigh, expecially in dense terrain. It is a good idea though to know which way, so pick a tree or feture that is on the map you can run to in the general direction and take a bearing on the fly as you run past the feature.

I for one run with a thumb compass so it is never exact for me, just keep the flow going and use the map as your first tool and the compass as an aid.

I always want to look at my compass as I leave the control. The only way to do that with any usefullness is to have looked at the next leg ahead of time. At the latest you should look as you approach the control (after spotting it).
I set bearings quite a lot. I find that I can read a baseplate with a set bearing quicker and more accurately while running. It allows looking at the map easier. Many Oers get in trouble with thumb compasses becuase they don't allow them to settle and it is hard to hold the compass high enough to look down it. The result is wandering off on rough bearings.
I think I am quite slow through controls. I should work on that if I can avoid making mistakes in the process.
Somewhere out there, in the last year, I saw a video of Simone and others going through a control. I swear they never even looked at their map in and out! Never broke stride....

As mentioned above, should precise bearing be done before, at or after the control which starts a featureless leg?

This portion of map is from the Morgan Arboretum in Montreal. My biggest challenge was getting from control #4 to #5 (or from #5 to #4). Some competitors were given the same map in the reverse direction.

There is little for the controller to work with. The night before the meet, flood-like rains took place so even the undefined marshes were not useful. The controls themselves were Hallowe'en themed items set on the ground - no feature. N/S lines are 250m apart.

Contours are 3m but there are no contours (only form lines) between any trail and #4 nor between any trail and #5.

My first scan of the map segment is not great quality. On map, there are four rootstocks alongside trail SSE of #4. On the ground, these rootstocks were not obvious.

Personally, I would have (#4 to 5) gone to the trail bend S of 4 then used precise compass. 5 to 4 is a little trickier if, as you say, the rootstocks were not obvious.

Because of the distance it's very hard to use precise compass over the entire distance between 4 and 5 especially with few features in between. That's when using attack points is a worthy skill.

I would use same as above, hit the corner of the path and run parrelle to the path back into the forest and then judge distance and maybe look for the clearing