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Attackpoint - performance and training tools for orienteering athletes

Discussion: Yeah

in: Samantha; Samantha > 2018-07-11

Jul 11, 2018 7:32 PM # 
Great comments from you. Thanks for speaking up.
Jul 11, 2018 7:46 PM # 
I also say thanks for speaking up! Especially when so many female athletes have also come out to say they struggle with self worth and positivity about their ability. I know I’m one of them! I’d hate to be that secretly, fight all the demons in my head to get to the start line and focus for a race get a great result and then get that response! Just how rude! But I wasn’t strong enough to speak up :/
Jul 11, 2018 7:54 PM # 
I normally always stay quiet because I know that someone else will probably say what I would say anyway, and probably say it better. But picking on female juniors feels a bit more personal to me.
Jul 11, 2018 7:55 PM # 
And Boris, you are the person I think of as someone who has always stood up for me on these nasty attackpoint discussions (sad that there are more than one). Thank you.
Jul 11, 2018 7:59 PM # 
Seriously, this individual can debate the structure of races and the fairness of the world championships all they like, but during a thread congratulating a runner from Canada for the best result they've had recently? I guess somebody crapped in this person's cheerios this morning.
Jul 11, 2018 8:24 PM # 
Right?! Do you think they’re just sitting there laughing at us as we get all worked up? Is that what trolls do?
Jul 11, 2018 8:30 PM # 
Yeah, pretty much. Hopefully Emma can ignore him and see the positives and the support she is getting from everyone else.
Jul 11, 2018 8:33 PM # 
I missed all the drama as I was away at a camp, but I have to say that i was so happy for Emma when I saw the result. What a great achievement. Thanks Sam for standing up for her! Good for you! It‘s so awful that people can take the joy away with disrespectful comments.
Jul 11, 2018 8:40 PM # 
I say we send Tove to dispense summary justice on this individual.
Jul 11, 2018 9:46 PM # 
I think your responses were good, and I feel like the AP communication came out as a pretty united force of support.

The worst would be to start engaging in the merits of his "points".

I also remember people being asshats to you on AP in public threads...on more than one occasion. Even when it was people who were part of the community and used their real name.

Agreecially with it not being at all ok to dillute the awesomeness of a young woman's successes that she has worked so damn hard for and has earned (true of you and of Emma).

I feel like a part of it is an assumption that if a North American did well it must be because they got some "help"..
rather than that they worked more and sacrificed more and are just really good. (Insert parallel comments in society here...race, gender, etc).

I did like somebody's point that there was an advantage to the ladies who got first and third that they got to chase Emma :).
Jul 11, 2018 10:18 PM # 
Thanks Samantha! Your comments are greatly appreciated (and needed).
Jul 12, 2018 6:55 AM # 
I agree with you Zan that trying to engage point by point just doesn’t work, even if that’s what one wants to do! And I also think it’s true that Simone probably got a boost from seeing Emma. It’s someone to chase down and make you push a bit harder. Pure running works the same for me. I’m going to push harder on intervals when I have someone near me to make me work. The nature of reverse starts does imply some catching will most likely happen. I’m preaching to the choir here, but of course you are influenced by those you see around you. Sometimes this helps and sometimes it doesn’t :) but we don’t orienteer in a vacuum.

Plus, I think the point to argue with him was not whether or not Emma followed (there is no way to change his mind no matter how much people point out she didn’t), but that the discussion celebrating her victory is not the place to write about it.
Jul 12, 2018 1:31 PM # 
This episode reminded me of how Heli was accused for following to medal in WOC long 2005. Two years later she won. Pretty much all following/"not worth the position" accusing cases I know has ended up the accused achieving something much greater later. I am pretty confident same happens here. Congrats to Emma, several of not that good route choices and still 6th! Impressive, surely we haven't sen nothing yet.
Jul 12, 2018 2:28 PM # 
Same with Marc Lauenstein being accused of following Khramov in 2005 to a silver... He came back with a follow-up silver a year later and shut up all accusers.
Jul 12, 2018 3:32 PM # 
Totally agree Sam on the fact that the thread celebrating her success is not the place to attack the runner and beat the dead horse of "what if we all ran alone in the forest/streets but magically also all had exactly the same weather conditions too" ( not our current sport). :)

Making the most of the people out on the course with you to push you is actually a part of the sport. We should accept that.
Jul 12, 2018 3:32 PM # 
But no pressure to Emma. Her performance in the sprint this year is enough on its own. Regardless of what happens in the future, she can always look back at this result and smile.
Jul 12, 2018 5:16 PM # 
Thank you everyone for your support of Emma. As you know, she is a great young woman and certainly didn't do anything wrong. The troll's comments couldn't go unchallenged and so many people stepped up. Thanks.
Jul 13, 2018 3:02 AM # 
So amazing to read this all after it had played out. And so proud to watch this community rally together, especially US/CAN current and former national team members standing up for Emma. Leaders, all of you - your words carry the weight of your experiences. Thanks for taking a stand.
Jul 13, 2018 8:11 AM # 
that’s what i love about the sport. It’s generally really friendly and supportive. When we lived in Uppsala we enjoyed having Boris over to visit (he would drink all our coke). we have hosted many top orienteers at our place.

then last year Sam and Ross hosted Emma for a while she was in sweden.

etc etc

Awesome sport.
Jul 16, 2018 6:46 PM # 
Jul 17, 2018 5:58 AM # 
I'm reminded of when Tom Quayle became the first Australian to make a JWOC top 10 in 1994, in similar circumstances to Emma this year, and with much the same background mutterings from a few people in more established orienteering countries as we've just seen (although no internet trolls in those days...). Those mutterings stopped when Tom did it again the next year, this time with no-one else around.
Jul 19, 2018 5:15 PM # 
Maybe Emma finishing 8th in the WUOC sprint will have the same effect. Clearly she is capable of top runs! (I haven't looked at any splits or start times or anything, but I am confident that Emma is good enough to finish that high on her own.)
Great to see you and so many other North Americans stick up for her. I'm sure you were reminded of when you finished 6th (? I think, wow it was a long time ago ;-) at JWOC ... I know there were rumblings then about your result; I'm sure you're glad we didn't have internet trolls then either. I'm pretty sure we all would have come out to support you if there were, just as you did for Emma.

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