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Discussion: Bjorn Kjellstrom Cup

in: Orienteering; General

Aug 17, 2018 5:46 PM # 
Canada is reigning champion, has a 15-4 all time record against the US, and is hosting this year. The US won three times in row from 2010-2014. What country will win the 20th edition of the BK Cup?

Canada (15)
1980, 1984, 1986, 1988, 1990, 1992, 1994, 1996, 1998, 2000, 2002, 2004, 2006, 2008, 2016

USA (4)
1982, 2010, 2012, 2014
Aug 18, 2018 3:14 AM # 
I think it will be a well-matched battle on the men's side, but Canada's depth on the women's side looks to be giving the host country the edge. But we'll see! Looking forward to some great racing this week.
Aug 18, 2018 10:10 AM # 
As a member of both national associations I say best wishes to both teams. There will be the best depth ever on both sides.
Because finishing times don't matter so much as what order they finish in I agree that it should be very closely matched with the teams' third, fourth and fifth place orienteers making the difference. Why fourth and fifth place when only three count? Those persons can really knock down the other team's points by finishing ahead of their third or even second orienteer.
I cringe for the relay team selectors because they will feel the pressure. Choosing your nation's top team will be crucial. There are so many points available for that win! Which nation wins the relay will have a big advantage to win the BK Cup with the winner having a 176% point advantage over second while the individual races have only about a 114% advantage for finishing first over second.
Aug 18, 2018 5:21 PM # 
Any live coverage of the NAOC Long? ;)
Aug 18, 2018 5:52 PM # 
Only ringside seats available.
Aug 18, 2018 6:15 PM # 
Twitter feed ? ;)
Aug 18, 2018 7:01 PM # 
IOF probably wants live results for the regional champs, for sure for next time. Live TV no, but most other stuff of WCs.
Aug 19, 2018 3:26 PM # 
AT&T will gladly accept a few $MM contribution from this "International Orienteering Federation" for impovements to its capital infrastructure in the Truckee/Tahoe area.
Aug 19, 2018 10:55 PM # 
Highly unofficially, based on my memory of the middle results (should have taken a picture) and the posted long results, I believe the BK points currently stand at USA 186 CAN 216. A meaningful advantage but one that could easily be erased tomorrow if the relay goes well for the US teams.

(ETA: well, maybe not easily - CAN has more depth entered on the women's side, which is behind more than all of the current Canadian lead, and will presumably make a blowout US victory in the relay including both genders an uphill climb.)
Aug 20, 2018 8:01 AM # 
My calcs...

Race - Can / USA
Long - 108 / 91
Middle - 98 / 103 ... 206 / 194
Aug 20, 2018 11:29 AM # 
This is what I get...

Race - CAN/USA
Long - 108 / 91
Middle - 108 / 99
TOT - 216 / 190
Aug 20, 2018 1:23 PM # 
I have done the math but Guy, did you include Emma and the other juniors in the calculations for the middle?
Aug 20, 2018 2:13 PM # 
I know I included Emma's top placing but not any effects of other juniors. Probably Hammer has the tally right - his CAN numbers for each race match mine.
Aug 20, 2018 2:59 PM # 
There are definitely other juniors that affect the results as well
Aug 20, 2018 5:12 PM # 
Relay just started. Can anyone post final teams?
Aug 20, 2018 5:22 PM # 
Tundra/Desert: Hopefully someday Northern California's digital infrastructure can catch up to the Latvia's of the world.
Aug 20, 2018 7:19 PM # 
Start of the relay!

Better camera angle
Aug 20, 2018 7:44 PM # 
Juniors only count in BK scoring if they're running the same courses as M/F-21+; I would only expect that in the Sprint.

EDIT: Ok, I see what you're saying; Emma, Tyra & Leif also contributed to BK scoring for the Middle. My bad for not looking at course results...
Aug 20, 2018 8:42 PM # 
These are the BK points after the Relay:


Eric Kemp 22
Damian Konotopetz 16
Adam Woods 13
Emily Kemp 22
Louise Oram 19
Tori Owen 16

Morten Jørgensen 25
Gregory Ahlswede 19
Anton Salmenkylä 10
Alison Crocker 25
Alison Campbell 8
Tori Borish 4

CAN:USA 108:91


Eric Kemp 19
Leif Blake 16
Robert Graham 13
Emma Waddington 25
Kendra Murray 19
Louise Oram 16

Anton Salmenkylä 25
Gregory Ahlswede 22
Eric Bone 7
Alison Crocker 22
Tyra Christopherson 13
Tori Borish 10

CAN:USA 108:99
CAN:USA 216:190


Canada M 30
Canada M 0
Canada F 30
Canada F 20

USA M 50
USA M 20
USA F 50
USA F 10

CAN:USA 80:130
CAN:USA 296:320
Aug 20, 2018 8:44 PM # 
Nev, yes I will take Latvia any day... once all the capitalists move there. But then it will become another place regularfolk can't afford. A conundrum.
Aug 20, 2018 9:58 PM # 
Could you perhaps include the names of those who didn't score points...but contributed to the point totals by placing ahead of the top 3 from the other country? Would be cool to give them recognition for their contributions too (since their races help their country).
Aug 20, 2018 10:48 PM # 
The forest was not kind to Canada today - 10 points certainly lost to impalement on the men's side (one can only hope Colin has been patched up and will be fine - word in the arena was only that he'd been transported to hospital) and likely a 40 point advantage to the US from Pia twisting her ankle and more than losing the lead Emma handed off to her. Of course, tough forests are part of the sport so kudos to those who got through their legs uninjured.

Anyway, the shoe is now on the other foot regarding which nation faces an uphill battle. The news that Alison Crocker won't run the sprint tomorrow opens things up slightly but there are lots of people, male and female, including juniors, with the speed to if not necessarily contend for sprint medals or score points for their own country, then at least have an impact on the placing/points for some of their opposite numbers. Advantage USA but tomorrow will still be exciting on BK cup grounds as on others.
Aug 20, 2018 10:55 PM # 
I assume the second US women's team finished inside the time limit? (they were looking likely to when I left). With Ali not running tomorrow (and with Emma counting for senior points as well as junior), the difference between a 14- and 24-point lead could be pretty important.
Aug 20, 2018 10:56 PM # 
Yes, Angelica finished well within the time limit.
Aug 21, 2018 2:19 AM # 
@Suzanne: Non-scoring contributors (all Canada)

Long (F)
Pia Blake 0
Kendra Murray 0
Emma Sherwood 0
[Allison Campbell 8]
Carol Walker 0
Jennifer Mackeigan 0
Finley Brandreth 0
[Tori Borish 4]

Middle (M)
Michael Svoboda 0
Brian May 0
Graeme Rennie 0
[Eric Bone 7]
Aug 21, 2018 3:06 AM # 
Aug 21, 2018 5:37 AM # 
Has anyone done the Future Champions Cup numbers? I'd like to double check mine with someone else.

What I have is:

After long: 93 for Canada / 96 for USA
After middle: 177 total for Canada / 203 total for USA (84 for Canada / 107 for USA)
After relay: 297 total for Canada / 303 total for USA (120 for Canada / 100 for USA)

Aug 21, 2018 6:00 AM # 
Guy Olsen had the same scores in the Future Champions Cup thread, so that's encouraging.
Aug 21, 2018 6:57 AM # 
Really good that there's a viable competition that both sides can win!
Aug 21, 2018 2:29 PM # 
Oops, missed that thread. Thanks Boris!
Aug 21, 2018 7:28 PM # 

Damian Konotopetz 25
Graeme Rennie 16
Jan Eric Naess 13
Emily Kemp 22
Louise Oram 16
Tori Owen 10

Gregory Ahlswede 22
Anton Salmenkylä 19
Will Enger 9
Tori Borish 25
Tyra Christopherson 19
Siri Christopherson 13

CAN:USA 102:107
CAN:USA 398:427
Aug 21, 2018 7:29 PM # 
Way to go Damian! Great to see him bouncing back after some rough races.
Aug 21, 2018 7:51 PM # 
Thanks for posting, Vladimir.

And congrats to the USA team for reclaiming the BK Cup!
Aug 21, 2018 8:00 PM # 
Word is the FC cup is also heading the same way but its is higher math than I am qualified for.
Aug 21, 2018 9:07 PM # 
Woo! Thanks much for the update! Good job to all!!
Aug 21, 2018 9:09 PM # 
Whoa, epic! Props to Tori for coming up big when it counts!
Aug 22, 2018 12:01 AM # 
It’s official bk and future champs cup are going back to US. The relay was awesome very fun courses in general.
Aug 22, 2018 12:04 AM # 
Awesome! Congrats to all the athletes, Canadian and American! And many props to those athletes based in Europe for making it all the way to the Yukon to race. It’s been fun to watch from afar.
Aug 22, 2018 12:32 AM # 
Congrats to everyone! It sounds like it was a tough match-up between two competitive countries. I am a little biased, though...I'm glad both cups are coming back to the US!
Aug 22, 2018 12:33 AM # 

FC scoring should be easier than BK, because only juniors count (no need to worry about juniors running same courses as adults). There is a bit more math, because -18 & -20 are in separate classes.
Aug 22, 2018 12:57 AM # 
Excuse my ignorance. It is pretty obvious what the term 'props' is supposed to mean but could someone tell me what is it's origin? I have never heard it used except in the theatrical context such as the stage props were wonderful or as in 'they propped up the corpse'.
Aug 22, 2018 1:04 AM # 
Urban dictionary says it is short for proper respect. Slang originating in the 1980s.
Aug 22, 2018 9:43 AM # 
Congrats, cheers, three cheers, kudos and now even props to the teams, the organizers and all involved. It was an exciting BK Cup competition. Thanks to Hammer and others for building a lot of interest through Attack Point.
Aug 23, 2018 2:41 AM # 
Congratulations to the US! Exciting battle that could have gone either way. This is a really fun part of NAOC.

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