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Discussion: Registration Open for the 40th West Point Nat'l Meet!

in: 40th Annual West Point National Meet (Apr 27–28 - West Point, NY, US)

Feb 15, 2019 6:25 PM # 
Bridge:
Registration has opened for the West Point National Meet and US/Canada WOC Team Trials!
EventRegister link can be found here
Additionally, our updated website is up and running!
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Feb 20, 2019 12:51 AM # 
furlong47:
What is the registration deadline? Is there a point where fees increase? I can't seem to find this info on the website.
Feb 20, 2019 2:27 AM # 
Bridge:
Late registration begins on 31 March, with registration closing on 17 April. Registering on or after 31 March will result in a $4 fee. All this information can be found under the "Registration" tab in the drop-down menu near the top of the page
Feb 20, 2019 4:43 AM # 
furlong47:
Thanks, I didn't even notice the menu. Most of the corresponding links in the body of the page don't actually seem to work (For example, there's a big Registration link and it says "more details can be found at the link above". Hovering over it causes the underline to change color, and a little link image appears next to it, but nothing happens when clicked. Same with Lodging/Travel and the smaller Race Details link near the top of the page.)
Feb 20, 2019 12:35 PM # 
Bridge:
Thank you for letting me know, we will get this issue resolved shortly!
Mar 27, 2019 6:36 PM # 
anniemac:
Any idea when you will be posting course lengths or course notes? Trying to decide what I can handle and would like to avoid late fee cut off - this weekend.

What would also be helpful to know are any distances we will be walking either to the start or from finish to arena.

Thanks in advance and for all your hard work putting this event together so we can play in the woods!
Mar 28, 2019 1:52 PM # 
Bridge:
Thank you for bringing this up, we'll get course length/walk to starts updated tonight. Course notes to come in the next few weeks
Mar 28, 2019 4:17 PM # 
Canadian:
Another question, is there a who's coming list somewhere? As coach and organizer for Orienteering Ottawa it would be nice to be able to see who has so far registered from our club.
Mar 28, 2019 4:20 PM # 
GlenT:
https://www.orienteeringusa.org/eventregister/a40/...
Mar 28, 2019 4:26 PM # 
Canadian:
Thanks Glen! For some reason I couldn't find the link when I registered.
Mar 29, 2019 2:58 AM # 
anniemac:
Thanks for posting the lengths and climbs, @Bridge!!
Mar 29, 2019 11:03 PM # 
feet:
Is it correct that there is no way to run the longest course Sunday if you are not in one of the two countries' WOC trials?
Mar 29, 2019 11:37 PM # 
Bridge:
Yes, that is correct. Team trials races are solely for those intending to try out for the WOC teams!
Mar 30, 2019 1:50 AM # 
jjcote:
Interesting. So as a mediocre, aging orienteer, I could run those courses, but a top competitor who isn't a citizen of the USA or Canada cannot.
Mar 30, 2019 2:13 AM # 
JanetT:
Can you tell us which age groups are on which (X vs Y) Brown and Green course? Is it by gender, or by the suggested course split guidelines?
Mar 30, 2019 1:12 PM # 
Bridge:
Apologies, I misspoke earlier. Exceptions can be made to run the elite courses on Sunday after the elite start windows close. Due to risk mitigation concerns stemming from course length and difficulty, permission will be granted by exception only. If you would like to seek an exception, please email the event registrar, Whitney Gunderman (whitney.gunderman@gmail.com) and cc me (brigitte.bordelon@westpoint.edu), and include your orienteering background.

As far as Brown and Green courses go, they are split by gender (X is female categories, Y is male).
Apr 9, 2019 3:54 PM # 
furlong47:
@Bridge - I've been trying unsuccessfully to reach the registrar by email for about 2 weeks. Or at least, I haven't received any response. I tried emailing directly and then a week later through the eventreg form. Is there anyone else who can help resolve an issue, or can someone ask her to please contact me? Specifically, I would like to verify that my payment made at the time of registration was received because eventreg incorrectly shows me owing a balance. But now I'm also wondering if my ID info for base access will not be received if my emails are not getting through.
Apr 9, 2019 4:29 PM # 
Bridge:
@furlong47 - Contacting her now, we'll get this resolved
Apr 9, 2019 5:20 PM # 
furlong47:
Thanks! Also, is there really no more secure method for ID collection available other than emailing it to someone's personal gmail account?
Apr 9, 2019 5:50 PM # 
mikeminium:
Yes, I'm disturbed by the emailing the personal info as well...

@Furlong47: I had a similar problem crop up with the Quantico meet where I had paid by PayPal, but a couple weeks later noticed that my registration was still showing as unpaid. (however, that registrar responded very quickly, verified that I had paid, and manually marked me as paid.). Since the issue is apparently not unique to me, perhaps there's a glitch that Ed needs to look into.
Apr 9, 2019 9:25 PM # 
GuyO:
They're not asking for SSNs like QOC...
Apr 9, 2019 10:45 PM # 
JanetT:
Still, they're asking for driver's license numbers and full birthdates, to a personal Gmail account.
Apr 9, 2019 10:52 PM # 
furlong47:
And in some cases, photos of passports
Apr 9, 2019 11:24 PM # 
Joe:
full birthdates only for non US
Apr 9, 2019 11:24 PM # 
furlong47:
For US citizens, the following information is required:

[1] Type of ID (Drivers License or State ID), [2] Name of state that issued you the ID, [3] Identification number on ID, and [4] full Date of Birth (mm/dd/yyyy).


That sure sounds like full birthdate for US Citizens to me (this is from the second email, received about ten minutes after the first one, which did not request them)
Apr 10, 2019 12:15 AM # 
Joe:
ah, only saw the first three and that's what they got.
Apr 10, 2019 12:26 AM # 
cmpbllv:
I hear a lot of frustration. My experiences dealing with post access from the military side were pretty frustrating, too, although for different reasons. I’m curious if anyone has a proposal for a better way to collect the information necessary to get pre-cleared for on-post access? Or if we’re just venting (in which case, please proceed).
Apr 10, 2019 1:23 AM # 
gordhun:
You can always gamble that the authorities are not actually vetting the information you submit and go ahead and change a digit here or there. Then if someone pilfers the information they get nowhere with it.
It's like those silly customs declarations we have to fill out when going by plane in to Canada or the US but when going by car a verbal declaration is good enough.
What happens to those piles of forms they collect at the airport each day? Is there a warehouse full of people cross-referencing the forms submitted?
Apr 10, 2019 1:44 AM # 
furlong47:
I'm actually not super worried about it myself, but have heard some others raising serious concerns so I brought it up. What we are being asked to send is personally identifiable information, to a personal email account, with no policy on storage, use, or deletion. The info for QOC was collected through a secure form, with a written policy on storage/use/deletion, in a way that doesn't directly connect it to a person's name. I believe that took place due to concerns about how it was collected in the past.

I'm also quite certain we aren't the only outside group ever to visit the base. Is there no normal protocol in place for collecting this information securely? Does everyone who needs to be pre-authorized to go there really just e-mail their information to someone?
Apr 10, 2019 2:03 AM # 
more donuts:
@cmpbllv: why would a group of random attackpoint users be tasked with designing a system for securely collecting personal information for West Point? And actually, why are *students* organizing this event responsible for this?

How does this information normally get collected by West Point from outside visitors? I imagine West Point has an IT team capable of collecting Personally Identifying Information, as well as a legal department that can consult them on federal regulations governing proper collection, management and disposal of PII.
Apr 10, 2019 2:56 AM # 
MJChilds:
Bridge: I am having a problem with my registration. Have sent two emails over the past few weeks-- one to the USMAOC Director and one to the event registrar and have received no response. Can you give someone a nudge for me? Am heading out of town from 4/10 - 4/18 and will not have good email access. Had hoped to attend the event.
Apr 10, 2019 3:28 AM # 
GuyO:
I didn't notice the 2nd e-mail (after having already replied to the 1st)

Another question is why is the registrar using a personal email instead of the ...@westpoint.edu that every cadet has?
Apr 10, 2019 11:21 AM # 
Bridge:
To address the issue of submitting PII--West Point is an active Army installation, with strict requirements to gain access. The Garrison Commander is requiring that this information be passed up in order for such a large influx of people to gain access to the main post.
I am getting the impression that the main concern here is the personal email. To be clear, our registrar has created this email solely for the purpose of the national meet, and will delete it once the event is complete. She is not using the @westpoint.edu email because of the large influx of emails we get every day as cadets, from our chain of command, instructors, et cetera, which would increase the chance that one of your emails gets accidentally overlooked. I understand your concerns and ask that you please remain patient, as we have had to jump through multiple administrative hoops to get this event approved. Please email me directly if you have further concerns.
Apr 10, 2019 11:22 AM # 
Bridge:
@MJChilds--acknowledged, will let her know
Apr 10, 2019 12:34 PM # 
mikeminium:
Bridge, how about the non-response issues people have mentioned above? It would be very nice to get a response from the registrar; I included a couple questions (one about waivers / requirements for minors, and the other about diet restrictions for a kid who signed up for the lunch and dinner). A couple other people (above) have mentioned not getting responses to their questions. I know registrars are busy people, and cadets doubly, no make that quadruply so...
Apr 10, 2019 12:59 PM # 
fossil:
Having not yet registered, but still planning to, I have not seen (other than here) the required details for sending in PII for base access. Evidently these details are being sent in a followup email only after one registers and pays...?

Am I to understand that the email method described above is the only acceptable method of transmitting this info? Is it not possible to put it on paper, put it in an envelope, and put a stamp on it for folks who recognize the risks the above method puts them at for identity fraud somewhere in the future?
Apr 10, 2019 1:13 PM # 
cmpbllv:
@more donuts - when people are unhappy, I think a good practice is to be sure you understand why before thinking about how to solve the problem. Otherwise, you might "solve" the wrong problem. And if someone already has a solution in mind, generally they'll tell you what it is. I don't have tasking authority over anyone here, but I have no problem asking. Even of someone with a new AP account who chooses to be anonymous. ;-)

I've also noticed that sometimes we just need to vent, and AP is often a forum for that. It's good to understand the difference between the two situations.

I know this is frustrating. Like it or not, military posts are not open access, and bringing a group on is always challenging. There are rules that apply across all facilities, plus additional ones local commanders impose. COC lost access to an on-post map due to the latter, and even with 3 senior officers who were orienteers working in the senior general's office, we weren't able to resolve that situation. The cadets are pretty lucky to have cleared all the necessary requirements to hold the event on post, and I hope you enjoy the opportunity to run on the maps there. Please be patient and work with the cadets to get them the information they need, in time for them to submit it to the security office. As mentioned above, contact Bridge if the current method poses an obstacle to your registration.

And I'll nudge the cadets to talk to QOC to learn how they set up their data collection. Best practices are always a good thing to share.
Apr 10, 2019 1:27 PM # 
mikeminium:
Here is what was in the e-mail. They only provide an e-mail address. It is also interesting that the published event registration deadline is April 17, but they are saying they need this ID info by April 14. The event website says that payment by check is accepted, but no mailing address is given there. On the confirmation email, I find this address:
Whitney Gunderman, P O Box 1660, West Point NY 10997

Quote:
For US citizens, the following information is required:

[1] Type of ID (Drivers License or State ID), [2] Name of state that issued you the ID, [3] Identification number on ID, and [4] full Date of Birth (mm/dd/yyyy).

If you are bringing additional travelers that are not competing, we will need this information from them as well.

For non-US citizens, the following information is required:

[1] full Date of Birth (mm/dd/yyyy), [2] country of citizenship, and [3] a photo of the information page in your passport with your picture.

If you are bringing additional travelers that are not competing, we will need this information from them as well.

Without this information you will likely experience difficulties getting onto West Point.

Once again, the registrar must have this information by 14 April.
Apr 10, 2019 1:30 PM # 
mikeminium:
@campbellv and bridge: Bridge asks us to contact, but doesn't share an email address (or other contact info) in her attackpoint profile...

And yes, the big concern is security of how the data is submitted. And the lack of any response to questions sent to that email address - begins to make one wonder if the address is correct and actually reaching the right person.
Apr 10, 2019 1:57 PM # 
Bridge:
1. Attackpoint profile updated with email address. Email is also given earlier in this thread.
2. Working now to resolve disparity between info request and date of end of registration. More to follow.
3. For transparency's sake, this information about PII is being pushed out via email because we were instructed by those in charge of post security only on Monday that we must collect it for FBI checks. Prior to that point we had been instructed by these same folks that all that was needed for US citizens to get on post was a government ID. This was as much of a surprise to us as it is to you.
4. Speaking with the registrar about email responses today, will resolve.
Apr 10, 2019 1:59 PM # 
fossil:
Maybe it's addressed elsewhere in the email but many juniors don't have drivers license or state id. Maybe a school id but some don't even have that.

It sounds like the thing to do is to register and not pay online. Then snail mail a check with the required PII included. Then send an email stating that PII is in the envelope with the check.
Apr 10, 2019 2:11 PM # 
mikeminium:
Thanks Bridge, I knew you'd get on top of it!
Apr 10, 2019 2:30 PM # 
GlenT:
Since the shuttles to the start will be taking us from off-post parking on to the post, will we need to have photo IDs with us on the shuttles? We would then need to either carry those IDs on the course with us or leave them in our warm-up clothing (under rather loose security).
Apr 10, 2019 2:41 PM # 
feet:
Non-citizens resident in the US might have US driver licenses or other ID and don't normally carry (or even have in some cases) a passport. Should they provide the ID that's required for US citizens? Or do they need to bring a passport to access West Point?

Does this apply to Sunday (off the main post) as well as Saturday?

I appreciate that this was a surprise to the cadets as much as anyone, but there is a lot of clarification that would be helpful here about what is actually required. Thanks in advance.
Apr 10, 2019 7:59 PM # 
Canadian:
Bridge, I just wanted to say that I'm impressed with how you've been dealing with all of this. You've been answering everyone's questions where possible and saying you will look into the others. Meanwhile, I'm sure you have lots of other course work to finish up for end of term and exams to study for.

While I share the misgivings about sending an image of a passport over email I know these requirements aren't your choice and you are doing the best you can to make it work for everyone. Is there any of the information that can be redacted (blotted out via photoshop) from the image page before sending it or do they need the full page intact?

Really looking forward to the weekend!
Apr 11, 2019 1:00 AM # 
Bridge:
Latest update: The registrar and I spoke with our OIC (officer in charge) this afternoon to clarify details of the situation at hand. Expect to receive an email from him tonight explaining exactly what we will need from you, why we need it, and a little background about why this is such a big deal all of a sudden. Because of this, I will leave the majority of the clarification to him, as he has been working most closely with post security.

The two things I can clarify now:
--No photo IDs necessary to get onto the shuttles, as you will be escorted by cadets there. Meet notes will come soon to explain further.
--This only applies to Saturday and getting onto main post then.

All other questions should be addressed in the email. Thank you all for your patience and concern as we continue to work to make this the best possible event for you.
Apr 11, 2019 1:05 AM # 
Bridge:
Also @Canadian, thank you for your support and understanding. We look forward to seeing you and the Canadian team at our event!
Apr 11, 2019 2:40 AM # 
GlenT:
Do we need to resend info to MAJ Plante’s address if we’ve already sent it to the registrar at the gmail address?
Apr 11, 2019 7:21 PM # 
Bridge:
@GlenT: No need, it has been received and will be transferred to the same government form
Apr 15, 2019 10:34 PM # 
fossil:
You can remove Sebago Cabins from the camping suggestions on the meet website. Their web site says they're closed through 02 May.
Apr 16, 2019 1:46 AM # 
Charlie:
Where does it ask for a driver’s license #? I didn’t see anything like that.
Apr 16, 2019 2:18 AM # 
mikeminium:
Charlie, you'll get an email from the registrar asking you to send it in.
Apr 16, 2019 3:12 AM # 
bbrooke:
Here's the email with all the details, if you want to be proactive:

From: Plante, Luke T MAJ
Sent: Wednesday, April 10, 2019 7:06 PM
Cc: Read, Mark R COL; Brooks, Matthew G CDT 2019; Gunderman, Whitney T CDT 2019; Bordelon, Brigitte M CDT 2020
Subject: West Point Orienteering Meet

All,

I am the officer in charge of the upcoming orienteering meet at West Point 27-28 April 2019. Firstly, I’d like to thank you for registering, and I look forward to the event! Secondly, I need to address security.

We have recently had an unforeseen increase in security requirements at West Point. This is NOT because of this orienteering event. This is a routine increase in security that we in the military are used to seeing periodically. I’d ask for your cooperation and understanding with this.

We were recently told to request the following information from each orienteer and accompanying guest who is aged 17 years or older:

For US citizens, please send me: your last name, first name, middle initial, full date of birth (not just year), gender (M/F), type of ID (driver license or state ID), state for ID, and ID # (driver license #, for example)

For non-US citizens (including those living in the US), please send me: full date of birth (not just year), country of citizenship, and also a picture of the picture page on your passport (clear, full picture of the page); children below age 17 should bring their passports with them 27 April and should be with an adult.

Please note that sending this information will greatly reduce the chances of there being any issues with your access to West Point on 27 April. Our Visitor Center’s installation access desk may be open 7 days a week by the time of the meet (as of now it is not open on weekends), so please feel free to try to gain installation access through them instead of sending me this information if you’d like. I’d appreciate it if you’d let me know either way though so I can keep track.

We’re hoping that sending this information to my address (@westpoint.edu) will make you feel more secure than sending it to a civilian email address.

Thank you in advance for your cooperation, and I look forward to seeing you soon!

Respectfully,
Luke Plante, PE
MAJ, CY
Assistant Professor
Department of Geography and Environmental Engineering
United States Military Academy
West Point, NY 10996
WH5416

luke.plante@westpoint.edu
845.938.0124 (O)
860.692.8129 (M)
Apr 16, 2019 12:41 PM # 
Bridge:
@fossil: Noted and fixed, thank you!

@bbrooke: Thank you for posting this, would not have thought to do this myself


To all: Registration closes TOMORROW, so please register ASAP if you have not already!!
Apr 17, 2019 12:29 AM # 
Ecmo:
Hi @Bridge. My family and I are coming to the West Point meet (all the way from Australia!).

I registered our entries a week or two ago but I'd like to change my entry for all 3 events to do a longer course (M50 to M40). I can't find a way of doing this through the Event registration system and the email I sent to the event registrar didn't get a reply.

Sorry to be a pain, is there any chance you could help out?

Cheers
Apr 17, 2019 1:14 AM # 
vmeyer:
Eric, not a pain, and it is only fixable on our end. Consider it handled. Though M40 and M45 run the same course...choice of class is yours, so M40 or M45?
Apr 17, 2019 1:26 AM # 
Ecmo:
Hi Valerie. As it's the same course I'm happy to run either class. Whichever one has the most runners would do me fine!

I've always wanted to run in the West Point terrain so I figure I'd like to make the most of it with a longer course.

Thanks heaps.
Apr 17, 2019 1:47 AM # 
vmeyer:
Coming so far, you may as well get bang for your buck! Looks like more on 45 and some mighty stiff competition as well. Look forward to seeing you and your family at West Point, certainly a O destination.
Apr 17, 2019 3:09 AM # 
anniemac:
What is the cutoff time for registration - it's tomorrow, but at what time? 11:59pm? TIA!
Apr 17, 2019 9:40 AM # 
vmeyer:
@anniemac - the cutoff is midnight PDT +1 hour, to allow time for completion of the registration process.
Apr 17, 2019 11:52 AM # 
anniemac:
@vmeyer, thanks! Registering my husband but he’s fairly new to O and figuring out which course would be appropriate for him at WP.
Apr 17, 2019 1:39 PM # 
cmpbllv:
@anniemac - feel free to email me and I'll be happy to advise. vjhcampb at post.harvard.edu.
Apr 17, 2019 4:01 PM # 
anniemac:
Sent you email, @cmpbllv! Thanks!
Apr 19, 2019 3:30 AM # 
Joe:
last minute request to register someone for saturday only? Pavlina had a change of plans.
Apr 19, 2019 10:28 AM # 
cmpbllv:
Joe, sent you an email.

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