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Discussion: Lawyer

in: Soupbone; Soupbone > 2019-05-04

May 5, 2019 4:33 AM # 
bbrooke:
I can't wait to hear more of this story. ;-)
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May 5, 2019 5:58 PM # 
chitownclark:
Great effort. Can't believe bgr is so possessive of that map. Yes he put in a lot of time developing one of the best maps for an A-meet on the OUSA schedule. But it was financed by the A-meet attendance! So OUSA owns it, plain and simple.

How many BGR members were you able to get to come? That's the real challenge if you mean to rekindle that club.
May 6, 2019 10:23 PM # 
Ricka:
OUSA owns it???
MLB will be glad to hear that they now own Wrigley Field. MLB does schedule the games which brings the fans!

I do hope that event organizers did purchase the maps, not make unauthorized copies.
May 6, 2019 11:08 PM # 
chitownclark:
bgr is a very talented guy. He WON the long course event at last October's OUSA Championships! He's also a very accomplished guitar player, with other qualities I admire.

But when we spend time mapping public parks, we're acting as AGENTS for OUSA...our time represents a DONATION to a 501-c(3) charity. Certainly you don't think marking a few boulders and reentrants gives one ownership of a map of a public space?
May 7, 2019 12:41 AM # 
Ricka:
Why not? A park being public does not imply (to me) that every map of the park is public. I assume Rand-McNally, DeLorme, etc consider themselves owners of their maps - even of public areas.
I would be shocked to hear that any mappers not contracted by OUSA consider themselves 'agents' of OUSA. Knowing him, I'm quite certain that bgr never considered himself an agent of OUSA and did not consider his work a donation to them.
It may depend on a mapper's contract (if any) with a park but I would consider the mapper [or his contractor] to be owner of the map. If marking boulders and reentrants adds sufficient value, that map sells. Hawn State Park provides their own free trail maps of HSP and they sell SLOC's maps for hikers desiring more detail.
My 2009 copy of Cat's Meow map states that the data and the map are the property of Badger O' Club - not to be copied without permission. Only mention of USOF is to obtain 'information about orienteering'.
May 7, 2019 2:33 AM # 
GlenT:
OUSA rarely (if ever) owns maps or contracts with people to make maps. Clubs are usually the entities which make and own maps (often accomplished through a contract with a mapper). The usual process to pay for a map is for a club to generate revenue by holding events on the map (often an OUSA sanctioned National Ranking Event (fka “A-meet”)). A club which is a member of the national federation (legally USOF but dba OUSA) sometimes gets a loan from the federation to produce a map, but then pays back that loan from event proceeds. Clubs also pay sanctioning fees to OUSA, but those fees have nothing to do with map ownership.
May 8, 2019 12:16 AM # 
Soupbone:
I don’t think brg has a leg to stand on. But as others update field work off the base map they become part owners. The maps do say copyright to the Badger O Club.
The event on May 4th went off without a hitch. I don’t know all the latest detail with lawyers and such and probably don’t want to discuss in a public forum.
May 8, 2019 12:07 PM # 
chitownclark:
I don't blame you. But did you ever ask Cathy Yekenewicz if the BGR treasury provided equipment or funding for bgr to make those maps?

The CAOC mapper has a long relationship with the Club. And I believe he gets some funding and equipment, in exchange he's never claimed 'ownership' that I know of. I wonder what Dave Fisher's arrangement is with SLOC...
May 8, 2019 4:09 PM # 
BP:
Interesting situation!
BTW Ownership = Intellectual property = Patented, Trademarked or Copyrighted (with evidence thereof that predates first public use).
May 9, 2019 6:38 PM # 
Soupbone:
Everybody involved wants the maps used. He was paid at certain times for his mapping with receipts to prove. Guess we will take the fight to court if need be, just not sure what someone is trying to get out of this.
Also as nicely as some have asked brg will not return any club equipment to the club, including some emit timing that was donated ugh!!
May 10, 2019 3:35 PM # 
Mr Wonderful:
I'm sorry for the troubles, but really happy to have some excuses to visit my folks back in Wisconsin!
May 10, 2019 6:01 PM # 
Soupbone:
Awesome hope you can one of the meets!
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