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Discussion: Map guessing contest

in: Hudson Highlander XX (Oct 6, 2019 - Southfields, NY, US)

Sep 14, 2019 1:53 PM # 
It is a tradition of Hudson Highlander to keep secret the parts of Harriman State Park used for this very long race until the day of the race.

This year is no exception.

Several years ego we had a contest on Attackpoint discussion board for guessing the maps used for the race,and it was won by Joe Brautigam, who received a unique 20x30 in. poster with the map and his photo on that.

In order to win this year's special poster, you would need correctly guess maps used for this year Highlander and the order they will be used. 3 maps will be used for orienteering parts, and those are the ones you have to guess.

People with inside knowledge of this year organisation are welcome to post as much disinformation in this thread as they find amusing.

Please, post your guesses lower in this thread. Entries into this contest will be closed on Tuesday, October 1, 2019.
Sep 14, 2019 2:26 PM # 
In honoUr of the 40th anniversary of the map where it all started, Silvermine, I predict a start on Silvermine, then onto Rockhouse Mtn and then over to Surebridge Mtn (Tiorati circle = start/finish).
Sep 15, 2019 1:17 AM # 
new sebago surebridge rockhouse
Sep 15, 2019 1:22 AM # 
Moneyhole Allamuchy Central Park
Sep 15, 2019 1:51 AM # 
JJ, I would actually like to see that one happen. maybe not in that order though.
Sep 15, 2019 3:48 AM # 
Long trail run between maps, though...
Sep 15, 2019 9:34 AM # 
Kangaroo Flat, Kangaroo Crossing and Kangaroo Gully.
Sep 16, 2019 1:32 AM # 
Ricky Ricky Ricky Rickay
no roos in the states
Sep 16, 2019 3:41 AM # 
I have a feeling J-J knows the maps :)
Sep 16, 2019 3:05 PM # 
@Joe - New Sebago is one year away from completion, may be next year.
Allamuchy North - just started, finishing that will depend on will of DVOA and HVO
Sep 16, 2019 3:20 PM # 
Sep 16, 2019 10:04 PM # 
How would an updated Sebago map be accessed, given the continued closure of Sebago Beach?
Sep 16, 2019 11:57 PM # 
From Spook Swamp or Kanawaukee Circle parking?
Sep 17, 2019 1:16 AM # 
Kanawaukee is certainly a possibility, though Spook Swamp events (what few we've had) had typically been staged from Sebago Beach.
Sep 17, 2019 10:27 AM # 
You could park at the camp if nothing is going on there. There are other camps on the periphery as well.
Sep 17, 2019 1:53 PM # 
Stay on topic, only 3 legit guesses so far.
And, there are many possibilities to park on that huge map (~25 km.sq.), including Sebago Beach, just need a permit.
Sep 17, 2019 2:02 PM # 
Polebrook, Surebridge, Rockhouse
Sep 17, 2019 2:38 PM # 
I will give a hint to make things interesting: The trail run starts and ends on an O map but most of it is on unmapped terrain.
Sep 17, 2019 4:35 PM # 
too easy Bernie. moneyhole and bushy ridge.
Sep 17, 2019 5:20 PM # 
Turkey Mountain (Harriman part), Baileytown, and Surebridge. Trail run on the area south of the Baileytown map, west of Seven Lakes Dr, and northwest of Tiorati Circle.
Sep 17, 2019 5:22 PM # 
I am hoping for the above (with a car shuttle to the start from the finish at Tiorati Circle), but I fear that with the trail run off the o-mapped area, we might be at accursed Lake Welch again...
Sep 18, 2019 3:01 PM # 
This will give it away:
- Trail run starts.
- In short order, makes a left turn at a trail intersection.
- Continues in a relatively straight line for most of the 5K
- Near the end, makes a left turn at a trail intersection for the last short trail section to the next map
This map of Harriman trails will help figure it out.
Sep 21, 2019 10:51 PM # 
Kangaroo Creek, Kangaroo Island, Kangaroo Very Flat.
Sep 23, 2019 1:34 PM # 
Here is some real information about the course: total climb is 980 meters, or ~3.7% to length. Trail run will have 250 m of climb.
And, keep guessing, make it interesting.
It will be a real classical Hudson Highlander!

And, I did not spot any kangaroos yet, while vetting, may be next time.
Oct 1, 2019 11:48 PM # 
Any news on location? more importantly, will the Final Four finish XX?
Oct 2, 2019 12:00 AM # 
The website has said Silvermine since at least last night.
Oct 2, 2019 12:20 AM # 
Silvermine is definitely one of the maps.
Oct 2, 2019 12:45 AM # 
It just had to include Silvermine given the 40th anniversary
Oct 2, 2019 1:04 AM # 
Feet, are you going? You are not on the start list.
Oct 3, 2019 2:38 PM # 
This 4th is doing it with a broken collar bone. Arm will be in a sling but that just means that I will have fewer limbs protruding when fighting the green!
Oct 3, 2019 3:43 PM # 
better hurry. Peggy is not far behind in total time.
Oct 3, 2019 3:46 PM # 
Woo hoo, this is my chance!
Gonna go study the course some more ... ;-)
Oct 3, 2019 5:02 PM # 
Where are the total time standings?
Oct 3, 2019 6:06 PM # 
Silvermine, Baileytown, Turkey Mountain
Oct 3, 2019 7:11 PM # 
I have all the stats on my laptop, but st the moment they aren't posted anywhere.
Oct 3, 2019 7:48 PM # 
Oct 3, 2019 8:25 PM # 
Glen would win if he posted this 2 days earlier ;).
See you all on Sunday.
Oct 3, 2019 9:30 PM # 
Isn't that the maps I guessed?
Oct 3, 2019 9:39 PM # 
It is. That was one of the clues! Peggy's notes say someone had already gotten the right combination but not in the right order.
Oct 3, 2019 10:21 PM # 
Hopefully okay to post here but I have a newbie question. I’m new to the straight orienteering format. I’ve completed a few AR races and I’ve done two 8hr Rogain style races with NYARA events but this seems new and I’m super excited. Correct me if I’m wrong, but is there a specific order you have to hit the controls in this type of race? I assume nav choices play a role, but this is more set point to point correct? Can’t wait to see everyone Sunday!
Oct 3, 2019 11:14 PM # 
Correct, you do the controls in sequence. (A few years in the Highlander there has been a subsection, usually very small, where you could get the controls in any order.)

For the Highlander, taking controls in a different order would rarely make sense anyway.
Oct 3, 2019 11:32 PM # 
Woo, new people. Welcome, thomasgifford!
Oct 3, 2019 11:52 PM # 
Same set of maps as Highlander II (1996), though in a different order. First time on Baileytown since the rainy Highlander V (1999).
Oct 4, 2019 12:06 AM # 
If Bernie takes 36 minutes more than Peggy, his total time will be higher. Charlie could also get past Glen on total time, 45 minute separation, and Sharon past Jeff, 78 minutes. Nothing else close in the top 10. It will be years before anyone gets close to Bob's 128 total hours. Only 17 people have more than half of that.
Oct 4, 2019 12:08 AM # 
Thank you for the goal I'll be aiming for, JJ!
Oct 4, 2019 12:09 AM # 
327 people have finished at least one Highlander. 106 more have tried and failed.
Oct 4, 2019 12:46 AM # 
Dumb question: what are the map scales?
Oct 4, 2019 12:56 AM # 
Thanks everyone! I'm actually coming with 2 friends who have raced ARs with me so 3 new people! I love that everyone knows these different map sections so well like legends! I've raced a few ultras in Harriman and it's soooo technical. I Can't wait to try this course!
Oct 4, 2019 1:02 AM # 
Map scales are all 1:10,000.
Oct 4, 2019 12:32 PM # 
Boris, read my initial post, your guess was good but not perfect :)
Oct 4, 2019 12:39 PM # 
The maps are two sided printing on water / tear-proof paper.
Baileytown is extremely good except for vegetation, it was the only complaint even when the map was first used. Surebridge does not need any introduction, still good in area used for the course. Silvermine has a lot of blueberry, it will be tough ending for the race, but the climb on this part is only 100 meters :)
Oct 4, 2019 2:16 PM # 
@thomasgifford - Strategy for finishing the Highlander: follow when you can! Your navigation needs to be pretty clean to finish in the allotted time. Note the 30% failure rate as per JJ's stats. All you need are a couple of big mistakes and its game over. With dozens of controls to hit (or miss) , there is safety in numbers.
Oct 4, 2019 6:11 PM # 
It's not really a 30% failure rate, as many of the people who have succeeded have succeeded numerous times, and most of those who have failed tried only once. The actual failure rate is more like 19%.

Looking forward to the long middle section on the lovely north section of Surebridge.
Oct 4, 2019 8:10 PM # 
Thank you Bernard. Luckily navigation is something we love and I’ll be running with my two AR partners and all of you pros. Very excited to try a new format and in a park I have loved and visited for years.
Oct 5, 2019 9:52 AM # 
It will be interesting to see what adventure racers think of orienteers' interpretation of 'failure'.
In orienteering we 'fail' / DQ/ DNF if we miss punching at even one control.
In adventure racing miss a control (aka CP) and you are just ranked below those who got to all the controls and those who also missed one but had a better time. Miss two and you are behind all of them. This even in a point to point segment. At least that's the way it is in Florida ARs.
There is no failure in adventure racing.
Oct 5, 2019 12:33 PM # 
Failure is an interesting word for me and there is definitely failure in AR racing. I think I look at that differently at every race. For the 24hr AR race, failure is a much different goal post than a 6hr or rogain event. I’m very inspired to take part in such a classic event like this. Failure this race would be not having a great time or rolling an ankle in the first 2 miles, but definitely aiming for the full course. Seriously appreciate all the good beta from everyone. See you bright and early.
Oct 5, 2019 12:50 PM # 
Fortunately, there are no miles tomorrow, only kilometers. I'll probably roll an ankle in the first two kilometers. But that won't stop me.
Oct 5, 2019 5:39 PM # 
For those of us not following every twist and turn of this thread, is there an official announcement of where the parking lot is, rough distance and time for the start, and snack/drink stops (including possible drops of our own stuff?)
Oct 5, 2019 5:41 PM # 
Oh it's on the official website

Where was I looking?
Oct 6, 2019 5:30 AM # 
gordhun, that used to be the case but a lot of AR organisers now put you on the 'unranked' list (essentially a fail) if you miss a CP. Previously it was just time penalties.

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