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Attackpoint - performance and training tools for orienteering athletes

Discussion: 1st old man

in: Chas; Chas > 2020-03-01

Mar 1, 2020 7:43 PM # 
mrmoosehead:
Ha. Lovely perspective / turn of phrase
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Mar 2, 2020 10:18 AM # 
Chas:
..although I suspect I'm still only 'middle aged' based on the age profile of orienteers...
Mar 2, 2020 10:19 AM # 
philm64:
Great map - lots of gritstone climbing areas on it! I'd love a copy.

not sure about the intense pack of controls late on - why? to deliberately confuse?

Good run!
Mar 2, 2020 10:20 AM # 
Chas:
The last section was on the 1:2,000 Burbage boulders map. Great fun. See photo on Strava.
Mar 2, 2020 10:29 AM # 
philm64:
Wow! I'd overshoot absolutely everything there.
Mar 2, 2020 10:32 AM # 
philm64:
Neil didn't enjoy the 1:2k bit much ..... :-(
Mar 2, 2020 11:12 AM # 
Frostbite:
It was sort of fun, just not as part of a proper orienteering course. I think I could get better at it with some practice (this was my first ever experience of this sort of thing) but why should I? Normal orienteering is just fine.
Mar 2, 2020 11:17 AM # 
RashRouteRicky:
You think Burbage represents "proper orienteering"?
Mar 2, 2020 11:43 AM # 
Frostbite:
Burbage might, in places. I don't think I represent proper orienteering any more, but I'd like to keep trying for a bit longer.
Mar 2, 2020 11:47 AM # 
RashRouteRicky:
Surprise View. Does my head in every time.
Mar 2, 2020 2:05 PM # 
philm64:
The map's awesome, surprise view , Fox house, burbage bridge etc etc ..... several legendary rock climbing venues: Millstone, Burbage far south to north, Higgar tor etc.... I'm going to create a blank map from RG just so I can have one. Saddo!

I certainly don't represent "proper orienteering" any more (some would argue I never did.....) (with good reason). I've decided to avoid High dam this May as it's far too much like "proper orienteering" - and I'm shite at that & always have been.
Mar 5, 2020 9:30 AM # 
Nathan:
I think in Britain it's actually really difficult to represent "proper orienteering" on any areas outside of the Lakes/Scotland. Even Wharncliffe that is ouften touted as the best in England outside of the Lakes has that many paths and has been run that many times that it doesn't pose the same technical challenge as "proper orienteering" like in Scandinavia.
I think if we're going to start becoming snobbish about the areas, in England especially, that we have to train and race on, then orienteering in the UK will go quickly downhill. Whilst I agree, Burbage may not represent the most difficult challenge in terms of areas, the same techniques apply as any other orienteering area and if they aren't done properly and a course isn't given the proper respect that it is due then undoubtedly people will make mistakes. It still offered route choice, fine compass navigation, contour and rock interpretation, disicpline coming in and out of controls, attackpoints. All of the things we're taught as younger orienteers but often neglect as seniors.
You only have to look at the concentration and quality of orienteers who have come through Sheffield over the years to recognise that there are still massive benefits to orienteering on the areas we have available. You have to make do with what you have and just make sure that you actually do orienteer when on them because that's the only way to make sure you can do so when you do have the opportunity to race on the good, technical areas.
I always think personally that no one can criticise an area or course unless they run absolutely perfectly on it, which non of us ever do as it is essentially impossible. Again you have to make sure you are actually orienteering and not just writing off an area because it is perceived as low quality, there is always garaunteed to be one or two legs in there that really challenge you and that is enough to make it worth it.
In terms of the 1:2000 section, it seems that it's gotten a bad response from people but that again I see as unfair. Map contact, especially in highly technical areas (eg. Summerhouse Knott for British Middles, almost any sprint o course, relay technique to follow your own route), is absolutely essential. The Burbage Boulders map is an exceptional resource and if it's treated as a proper orienteering course there are major benefits to it in terms of transferable skills. Overshooting/making mistakes points to dodgy exit directions and lack of contact which cause time losses on any course, regardless of the scale.
I thought the event on Sunday was really well planned to make the best use of the area and offer a range of techniques and challenges. I agree that it isn't the most difficult area, but the planning made it as difficult as it could be. To write it off as "not proper orienteering" means that any benefits or technical challenges are just shrugged off or neglected because of this preconception, which is something I think happens too often in British events.
Just my 2 cents anyway, not having a go at all just trying to offer a different perspective.
Mar 5, 2020 11:23 AM # 
RashRouteRicky:
I planned on Burbage in 2011. The planners comments also include a short history of micro orienteering in Sheffield.

The longer courses had two trips through the boulders plus some pretty long legs. To increase confusion in the boulders I intentionally made the different variants similar to gaffled relay legs. I thought Chapper's courses looked about as good as you could get, although now the forest has been felled I'm quite glad I didn't have to run them ;-)

My philosophy is that when it comes to racing "proper orienteering" is anything that forces you to balance speed with navigation. Sure, a several km leg to a point feature through the mist on a mountain somewhere is also "proper orienteering" in that it is a significant navigational challenge that if you don't train for you're likely to screw up.

I personally struggle with the obsession with long legs and route choice. Much as I enjoy orienteering on open areas, long-o and beer trails, (proper) orienteering racing isn't fell racing.

For me the 2019 WOC long race strayed too far into the (I suspect somewhat random) track vs forest decision to be "proper orienteering" even though there were also large sections of what used to be called "classic" that also had a significant effect on the results.

If a long leg is very easy to execute then really it's just a glorified fell or cross-country race. Same problem in reverse for the control-picking middle distance - every time you are at a control you know where you are. Balancing speed and concentration on a mixture of short and mid-length legs can be much more difficult than flowing through lots of short legs. But by my personal definitions Ecclesall Woods is as proper as Lunsen.

My problem is I struggle to understand the view that orienteering racing should be constrained to certain map scales, certain winning times, certain types of terrain etc. I agree that standardisation is required for international competition but most levels of competition in Britain are more akin to "quaint" than "elite" so maybe we should get over ourselves and just make the most creative use of what we've got - which is what Burbage Boulders and Tim Tett's Fat Cat mind-benders very successfully do.
Mar 5, 2020 5:01 PM # 
Chas:
I used to think that events should fall into one of the official categories; i.e. Long, Middle, Sprint etc. I've now changed my mind and am happy to accept innovation within reason. It would be a shame not to use the fantastic Boulders map and Chappers made the best use of it. It was one of the best courses I've run on Burbage, even without the forested bits (RIP).
Mar 5, 2020 5:35 PM # 
RashRouteRicky:
You should come to a late-summer DPFR Burbage Summer Sharpener. Then you'd experience "proper orienteering".

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