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Discussion: NAOC 2020

in: Orienteering; General

Mar 26, 2020 7:36 PM # 
Runner99:
Hey can I ask, what are the chances of NOAC happening? Might it be postponed or done somewhere else altogether?

Im just wondering because I have some very specific preparation thats not really worth doing if it happens elsewhere....

Thanks!
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Mar 26, 2020 9:06 PM # 
SherlockHolmes:
There is another thread on this topic in which on 3/16 it is stated that NAOC plans are proceeding at this time. From someone who has already made all of their reservations, I hope no decision will be made for at least a couple months when we have clearer picture of the full impact of the crisis, and perhaps an end to the distancing and travel restrictions is made.
Mar 27, 2020 1:10 AM # 
gordhun:
I hope they hold them this year while PG is in an older age category than I am.
Mar 27, 2020 2:28 AM # 
GHOSLO:
Very few Canadians will leave Canada to visit the US.
Mar 27, 2020 3:13 AM # 
jjcote:
You do realize that this whole pandemic hoax is just a plot by OUSA to win the Bjorn Kjellstrom Cup, right? The "Coolest Orienteer-Rogainer of North America" awards should be a dead giveaway.
Mar 28, 2020 3:22 AM # 
Hammer:
The US now has the most cases of covid-19 in the World. The US President is threatening to place military troops on the Canadian border. Major international sporting events that were scheduled to take place after NAOC have been postponed or cancelled. As a former NorAm orienteering champion and as a previous NAOC course planner i urge the NAOC2020 organizers to postpone this summer’s race. I know how much work it is to organize a race like this and I know how much hard work is needed to train to win it... but postponing the race is the prudent thing to do.
Mar 28, 2020 3:36 AM # 
robplow:
threatening to place military troops on the Canadian border.

surely that should be the other way round - Canadian troops keeping out the infected American hoards in search of affordable health care.

you should build a wall!
Mar 28, 2020 4:14 AM # 
GHOSLO:
Over fifty years ago former Canadian Prime Minister Pierre Trudeau told Richard Nixon "Living next to you is in some ways like sleeping with an elephant. No matter how friendly and even-tempered is the beast, if I can call it that, one is affected by every twitch and grunt".
Apparently a million Canadians have fled from the elephant in the past few weeks, I can't see them returning any time soon.
Mar 28, 2020 6:01 AM # 
jtorranc:
It is, of course, normal for Canadian snowbirds to return from the US to Canada in spring. Has there actually been a significant excess flow of Canadians to the US over the last few weeks compared to the same time frame in past years?
Mar 28, 2020 11:07 AM # 
gordhun:
Surely the idea of placing troops along that border must have been a case of somebody pulling somebody else's chain.
Let's keep 'social distance' they are telling the world then they tell their troops to concentrate in makeshift barracks and ride around in trucks together, eat meals together, etc.
Nobody could be that heartless to their troops. Well almost nobody.
Mar 28, 2020 12:50 PM # 
GHOSLO:
@jtorranc. You are right that the snowbirds return at this time of year but the ones that we know returned early. They heeded the call from our government that we wanted to close the border to the United States. They are required to self isolate for 2 weeks. The border is now closed (thank goodness). Even if we wanted to go to an orienteering meet in the US, we couldn't, We would not be allowed to cross the border.
Mar 28, 2020 3:31 PM # 
SherlockHolmes:
While it appears NAOC may have to be postponed, what's the harm in waiting 2 months to make the decision? Wuhan, where it all started, is easing restrictions after only 2 months and it's still over 3 months until NAOC.
Mar 28, 2020 4:28 PM # 
jjcote:
It's an event where people need to make/cancel travel plans, presumably with some lead time.

I've got tickets to Sweden for the O-Ringen right around then. At this point I'm figuring that I'll be eating the cost of the airfare, or maybe if I'm really lucky I'll be able to apply the price of the tickets to a future flight.
Mar 28, 2020 4:59 PM # 
SherlockHolmes:
Most travel entities have been very understanding. I had all my reservations for DVOA Big Woods and COC Whidbey Island including extended trips to DC for the Cherry Blossom festival and to Olympic National Park. I've been able to get refunds or transfers on everything except one flight made with points. This includes airlines, car rentals, hotels, ferries, and parking lots. I've already made all my reservations for NAOC as well so if it's cancelled I believe I'll be able to get refunds as well. That's not to say it's not a pain, but you should be able to recoup your costs.
Mar 28, 2020 5:27 PM # 
jtorranc:
@GHOSLO - if I were a senior citizen living in Florida during the winter I admit I'd probably take the current situation as a reason to immediately opt for Canadian governance and health care too, regardless of exhortation from Trudeau and company or lack thereof. No need to imply the border is closed to returning Canadian citizens or permanent residents.
Mar 28, 2020 7:28 PM # 
GHOSLO:
@jtorranc. I wasn't clear. It wasn't implied that it was closed for returning Canadians. The border is closed for Americans to enter Canada and for Canadians to enter the US (with a few exceptions in both directions). I probably cannot book a flight.
Mar 28, 2020 8:26 PM # 
speedy:
WOC is postponed, WMOC is postponed. And I expect same will happen to NAOC and WRC. Organizers should make a decision soon and announce it.
Mar 28, 2020 8:30 PM # 
slow-twitch:
@Sherlock: "Easing restrictions in Wuhan" means people being allowed to leave their home and visit nearby family members, not going straight back to life as normal. And that's after 2 months of concerted consistent effort not destabilised by contradictory messages from different levels of government. Even where this is being well managed with short universal isolation, there will be a long period of persistence in the population and managing local outbreaks ahead. Expect to be able to return to a relatively normal life in your local community soon but I wouldn't be commiting to any long distance travel plans for the rest of the year at least. Will be very happy to be proven wrong.
Mar 28, 2020 10:08 PM # 
peggyd:
WOC has not (yet) been postponed. "A decision is expected within the next few days."
Seems likely, however.
Mar 29, 2020 3:32 PM # 
PGoodwin:
I will bet that an announcement will come out in a week or so. Probably trying to get all the ducks in a row. Is it possible to do the following year? How do we refund money? Lots of other things....... Don't think that the organizers have their heads on the sand.
Mar 29, 2020 3:40 PM # 
mikeminium:
Personally, I'm in the "don't jump the gun on cancelling" camp for events that are still several months away.

And, as Peter mentions, there are a lot of details for organizers to think about before formally announcing a cancellation or postponement.
Mar 29, 2020 10:36 PM # 
blairtrewin:
Indeed - there are a lot of moving parts to think about here (not least the date of the Olympics, which in turn may result in a move of the World Games since the two presumably won't clash).
Mar 30, 2020 1:03 PM # 
kissy:
The opening ceremony for the Olympics has been announced as July 23, 2021, the currently scheduled date for the World Games sprint in Birmingham, Alabama.
Mar 30, 2020 1:07 PM # 
BorisGr:
Not ideal...
Mar 30, 2020 1:09 PM # 
GHOSLO:
I'm happy to hear that the US president has finally realized that things won't be cleared up by Easter. Too late though.
Mar 30, 2020 1:42 PM # 
gordhun:
Let's just say NAOC and its wonderful series of companion events does not happen in 2020. Let's say they get pushed back to 2021 as will happen with the Canadian Orienteering Championships.
So is there a ripple effect for NAOC in future years? Do they move to odd numbered years? Or will Canada host a 2022 NAOC?
Right now the NAOC is the same year as the IOF Urban O world championships. Is that a relationship worth keeping. It seems most orienteers in North America treat urban (sprint) O as an afterthought, anyway.
Too soon to ask? Of course, but I want to put the consideration out there for folks to ponder.
Mar 30, 2020 1:58 PM # 
Platterpus:
With all postponed events piled on top of each other, it might be better to postpone this until 2022. At least then they would get a jump on it and would not competing against so many other events. But maybe all these difficult decisions are one of the main reason for any delay in announcements.
Mar 30, 2020 8:04 PM # 
Nick:
for folks over 34- any postponed event might be "good" if that will bring you to the "next age group" - lol... and if you were looking for that
Mar 30, 2020 9:04 PM # 
angelica:
I don't see anything wrong with having NAOC 2020 next year if this year will be cancelled and Canada to host NAOC 2022 in year 2022. Life is too short to cancel and wait on another year. NAOC has been favorite event for many people.
Mar 30, 2020 9:34 PM # 
Gswede:
Just wanted to put out that NAOC next year would mean that NorAm's extra WOC spots would be lost depending on the timing.

Not the end of the world, but it is a drawback of holding it next year.
Mar 30, 2020 9:58 PM # 
iansmith:
Perhaps NAOC could be rescheduled for the spring so as to still be before the forest WOC in July 2021.
Mar 30, 2020 10:17 PM # 
blairtrewin:
Presumably there's a limit to how early you can go without risking the area being under snow?

As the rules are written, the NAOC 2018 personal spots would actually carry over to 2021 if the "2020" event hasn't taken place by then, but that might be reassessed depending on what happens with other regional championships, all of which are in at least some doubt.
Mar 31, 2020 4:16 PM # 
fossil:
Mar 31, 2020 5:43 PM # 
yurets:
this is not an exponential graph btw
Mar 31, 2020 7:09 PM # 
jjcote:
I'll bet you could get a decent curve fit to that with an exponential. At least to the accuracy of the sketch. (And it appears to trace back to a "woke 8 year old".)

Meanwhile:
Mar 31, 2020 8:05 PM # 
Rhombus:
European Champs, World Cup round 2 have been cancelled and WOC has been postponed, along with other events. NAOC should do the same because nobody will be going anyway at this point. I seriously doubt this whole thing will be over by the time August arrives, especially in the US. Plus you gotta give time for people to book stuff and prepare. Make the responsible choice.

https://orienteering.sport/nokian-tyres-world-orie...
Mar 31, 2020 11:11 PM # 
tRicky:
WMTBOC also cancelled for the few of us interested.
Mar 31, 2020 11:25 PM # 
upnorthguy:
Well, it is almost 4 months away still. I am happy to wait a little longer for a decision. I'm confident the organizers are looking all kinds of issues, scenarios, implications etc. in a responsible manner.
Mar 31, 2020 11:35 PM # 
jennycas:
Presumably nobody still thinks JWOC's going ahead as scheduled at the end of June...
Apr 1, 2020 1:06 AM # 
Rhombus:
Just postpone it to next year and save everyone the stress please
Apr 1, 2020 1:15 AM # 
Geoman:
Patience please. Have no doubt that event officials are working hard on the decision making process. There is much at stake here.
Apr 1, 2020 2:37 AM # 
mikeminium:
Definitely patience! We don't know yet what will happen in a couple months. Maybe things will get worse and we'll be isolating well into the summer. But maybe warmer weather, social distancing, and the incredibly rapid advancements in treatments and prevention will make a big difference, and we'll be wishing that many of these summer events hadn't jumped on a frenzied bandwagon to cancel months in advance.
Apr 1, 2020 3:14 AM # 
Anvil:
Postpone
Apr 1, 2020 3:38 AM # 
fossil:
And maybe pigs will fly
Apr 1, 2020 3:42 AM # 
jennycas:
I've already heard that the WRC is being postponed until 2021. Surely NAOC is part of that decision-making process?
Apr 1, 2020 3:51 AM # 
tRicky:
As long as you don't want any travelling visitors who need more than a week's notice to arrange flights and accommodation then by all means go ahead.
Apr 1, 2020 4:22 AM # 
yurets:
After all it is not such a big deal: CNN: Coronavirus death rate is lower than previously reported, study says

The research, published in the medical journal The Lancet Infectious Diseases, estimated that about 0.66% of those infected with the virus will die.
Apr 1, 2020 8:19 AM # 
Chas:
If you're interested in the viewpoint of a European planning on coming to the California O-Fest:

We have flights and accommodation all booked (before Coronavirus). Whilst we can see that it's very unlikely that we'll be coming to the USA this year, there is no rush to cancel/postpone at this stage. The accommodation is refundable up until a few weeks prior and hopefully we might get something back from the airline (if they still exist) when they get to cancelling flights that far in the future.

If you do end up postponing then it's very unlikely that we'll come in 2021. We have accommodation booked for the Scottish 6 Days already...
Apr 1, 2020 8:21 AM # 
robplow:
Chas, sorry to break it to you - you are no longer European.
Apr 1, 2020 8:31 AM # 
Chas:
I live in Europe ;/
Apr 1, 2020 10:37 AM # 
HidingControls:
Orienteering USA have a Board Meeting on April 4th. It is my understanding that a final decision will be made at that meeting. Jennycas - WRC has not been postponed, that decision comes with the organisers and OUSA at the meeting on the 4th. I do understand how you have that idea though. What has happened is the the IRF council (member nations) have endorsed a proposal to postpone the WRC.
Please be patient, the organisers have put good thought into the planning and have not rushed their decisions.
Matt Bixley
President IRF - I have no vote in this. just please be patient a decision is coming.
Apr 1, 2020 11:02 AM # 
Arnold:
At least this whole thing temporarily solves the IOF’s problem in finding organisers for big events...
Apr 2, 2020 11:51 AM # 
GHOSLO:
The US has not recovered from Trump's plan to get people back to work by Easter. This delay in getting the message out has meant that it now has twice as many cases as any other country. The whole population must realize that there shouldn't be any events of any kind for a long time.
There were a thousand COVID-19 deaths in the US yesterday.
(edited)
Apr 2, 2020 12:22 PM # 
tRicky:
Presumably that's just Covid 19 deaths as I'm sure there were plenty more that went unreported in mass media.
Apr 2, 2020 3:36 PM # 
Mr Wonderful:
{The US} now has twice as many cases as any other country

I knew if we just all came together we could be #1.
Apr 2, 2020 3:56 PM # 
jjcote:
I think 2020 (the entire year) is just postponed by a year. It's a good thing this didn't all l come to a head until after Leap Day, or it would have really messed up the calendar. The good news is that if you survive this, then 2020 doesn't count and your age won't bump up until a year later.
Apr 2, 2020 4:00 PM # 
gordhun:
Hell no JJ! With our 10 year age classes in Canada I have been looking forward to 2021 for about five years now.
Apr 2, 2020 6:00 PM # 
rlindzon:
Good idea, jjcote! It could be readily implemented merely by changing the rule so that instead of using the age as of Dec. 31 of the year, it would be the age as of Jan. 1. That would postpone the year for everyone except the very few born on New Year's Day. (2020 is the year my elite course goes from green to brown.)
Apr 3, 2020 6:08 AM # 
smaclean:
The CalOFest including NAOC and WRC is now officially postponed until 2021. Please see announcement in the event page and on the website...https://www.cal-o-fest.com/#!/
Apr 3, 2020 7:30 AM # 
Hammer:
thank you. i can’t imagine how much extra work this is creating but this was the right decision.
Apr 3, 2020 12:45 PM # 
Sandy:
Agreed. Thank you.
Apr 3, 2020 1:28 PM # 
peggyd:
I'm glad to see that the organizers will (try very hard to) have the same events in the same locations as was scheduled. I was so looking forward to this trip, but now I just have longer to anticipate. (And train!)
Thanks to the organizers; we all know how hard a decision it is and how much work it will be to make the adjustments.
Apr 3, 2020 2:02 PM # 
PGoodwin:
I thank the organizers for their hard work and look forward to 2021.
Apr 3, 2020 3:28 PM # 
Rhombus:
Thank you for postponing, we understand it's a difficult choice to make but it's the smartest and safest move, see you in 2021
Apr 3, 2020 7:23 PM # 
AliC:
Yuppers, psyched it will occur a year later!! Def still looking forward to it!
Apr 4, 2020 12:46 AM # 
upnorthguy:
I think it was the decision they had to make, unfortunately I am planning on doing the Swiss O Week next year (July 17-24) so may have to miss NAOC (and possibly COC), depending on dates they pick.....Can't get to everything.
Apr 4, 2020 7:29 AM # 
HidingControls:
upnorthguy - while the dates aren't fixed in place yet the ones I am aware of will suit you nicely
Apr 4, 2020 1:28 PM # 
Vector:
Hope it doesn't conflict with WMOC in Japan.
Apr 4, 2020 2:19 PM # 
tRicky:
Is that likely to still go ahead with the Olympics soon afterwards?
Apr 4, 2020 4:18 PM # 
SherlockHolmes:
Isn't it refreshing to see there are going to be so many orienteering events in 2021 that people are concerned about which ones they are going to be able to attend. I wish we had these types of decisions to make all of the time.
Apr 4, 2020 5:03 PM # 
Canadian:
+1 SherlockHolmes
Apr 4, 2020 5:03 PM # 
Canadian:
Maybe we just need to cancel orienteering every second year ;)
Apr 5, 2020 4:51 PM # 
bchubb:
That would give gordhun an extra year in M75 before I catch up ;-)
Apr 5, 2020 7:47 PM # 
gordhun:
Not needed bchubb. We have another way to take you out of the equation. They just get you to make the maps for all the important Canadian events. I love running on bchubb maps for two reasons 1) They are REALLY good maps and 2) bchubb isn't one of the competitors.

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