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Attackpoint - performance and training tools for orienteering athletes

Discussion: Noted

in: LOST_Richard; LOST_Richard > 2020-04-11

Apr 11, 2020 7:49 AM # 
That you dropped into M35A the first year you were eligible for it! Some of us just don't take the hint.

Strangely I've been to all the Easters in Aus since my first one in 2011 (I started orienteering in 2008 but didn't get into the Easter spirit until the next time it was in WA - also missed the year that Easter was essentially in NZ and no event in Aus). I did attend last year but only ran on two days and only one of them in an official category (the relay).

I say 'strangely' above because in all that time I've only been to two national foot carnivals (one in WA and one in Vic). Been to all the national MTBO carnivals since 2010.
Apr 11, 2020 7:53 AM # 
Oops I lied in the above, I missed 2012 in Qld. That was probably a good one to miss with the gazillion grass seeds I heard about afterwards. So I guess essentially I competed officially in 2011, 2013, 2014, 2015, 2016 and 2018 (M21E in all those years though I first qualified for M35A in 2012). I'm not that keen to put my results up. Think I would have quite good results if I went in M21A considering there's typically only one person in it (though I believe the present M21E is the former M21A).
Apr 11, 2020 8:08 AM # 
that I beat you (just) a few times. That was a good result in Dubbo for you - did you have a nice start draw?
Apr 11, 2020 8:26 AM # 
@BB you are a mere youngster so you should beat me ...
Apr 12, 2020 12:42 AM # 
Unfortunately I lost a lot of my records when I emigrated, including, frustratingly most of my "Championship" maps from the 70s and 80s (I was filing by category in those days). So I only have one of those results books - JK 80. I'll send copies of the relevant pages by text, but you finished 79th of 179 in M21B. Keeping up the 79 theme, that was less than a minute ahead of Fred Corscadden, who was the Irish Team Manager for the 1979 World Championships!
In the relay Walton Chasers were 94th and you were 32nd out of 73 on your combination.
Apr 12, 2020 2:24 AM # 
There was a time when it was normal for people to move into 35s as soon as they could; I think this changed around the time that the National League became established as a domestic elite competition, encouraging people to stay in 21Es longer. (Another factor is probably that 30 or 40 years ago, a lot more people had children in their 20s and were subsequently back, with families, by the time they hit 35s).

Had a look at 10-year snapshots for Easter: the number of M35A entries was 36 in 1985, 23 in 1995, 10 in 2005 and 1 in 2015. Not quite so extreme for the women with 23, 11, 14 and 9 respectively. (1985 is the demographic bulge passing through, not so much the others). The truly enormous M35A classes of the early 1980s - 108 (split across A1 and A2) in 1980, 104 in 1982 - aren't quite a fair comparison because until 1984, M43 (can anyone explain the logic of that number?) was the next class up.
Apr 12, 2020 2:27 AM # 
Maybe 43 is the calculated age for initial decline in fitness, which doesn't bode well for me this year.
Apr 12, 2020 2:57 AM # 
Blair - is there any clue to this by virtue of what was the next age group after 43? You would have been involved in O at the stage we started in 1988, and I recall some odd age groupings, but which changed around that time? Haven't got anything substantial to base this on, but a dim memory.
Apr 12, 2020 3:07 AM # 
It was also M35-43 in the UK when I started, have no idea why it was so, but it was so ...
Apr 12, 2020 4:05 AM # 
It was a marathon to get to 42. The rest of your life is a recovery.
Apr 12, 2020 4:47 AM # 
If you find Dartmoor (JK79) look me up - can't remember whether I was M21B or C.
Apr 12, 2020 5:16 AM # 
The age groups were 35, 43, 50 and a few crinkly ancients running 56. It was rumoured that some overseas events had an M62 class but no-one in Australian orienteering was that old.

Almost since the start, the oldest age group in Australia has been for those born in the early to mid-1920s, of whom Hermann is the last one competing, although others are still with us (some cross-checking of who was in which age group when reveals that Joan Bourne turns 100 this year).

Another thing that's changed is the mix of people in the different levels - in the days when the 21 classes were A, B and C, it was by no means unusual for A to be the smallest (especially for the women). That changed abruptly around the early 1990s, except for the years when Sledge was big.
Apr 12, 2020 5:32 AM # 
Thanks for the filling in Blair. I also have a very vague feeling that youngsters were 3 year groups?? (-12, -15,-18,-21) With the 8 year gap I assumed it was a 15 year spread. And again an odd spread anyway and a very big change in 15 years of ability and performance. I know there have been some moves to reduce the number of age groupings to 10 year intervals in the adult ages - with all the attendant arguments associated with that nest of vipers.
Apr 12, 2020 6:32 AM # 
No, the junior age groups haven't changed for many years, but the terminology for them has (what we now call M20 used to be called M19). Juniors are another area where B classes used to get a large turnout, although that was partly because before 10s became a class in its own right (1983-84), 12B was a de facto 10s class.
Apr 12, 2020 7:34 AM # 
It seems there had become some sort of stigma to entering B classes so that now they are rarely offered. In place there are AS classes for people wanted a shorter but still hard navigation course. The B classes are now accommodated with various Open B classes.

Personally I think this is a retrograde step as the B classes were a stepping stone that allowed, in particular, adults to work their way through the levels and not feel inferior. They were recognized as legitimate classes with associated awards and badges. Under the old badge scheme a result in a B class was recongnised up to Silver Badge and a C class upto Bronze Badge.

Whereas Open B is seen by some as a "losers" class and relegated to a side show with no recognition. (yet the entrants pay the some entry fee as A class entrants)

Most other sports have divisions within their competitive structure e.g. Pennants in the likes of tennis, bowls etc. UK Football has Premier, Championship, 1st, 2nd and many non-league divisions each with due recognition for the winners and place getters in each. Aussie Rules has AFl, State Leagues and then other below that all legitimate competitions in their own right.
Apr 12, 2020 8:33 AM # 
LOST Richard - fully agree,
Apr 12, 2020 8:57 AM # 
In some ways it's the terminology that's changed - AS is the old B and B is the old C (and you could even argue that Open B is an equivalent of the old 21C - C was normally only offered in 21s). Interesting that Open B has many more takers amongst the women than the men.

Junior B classes are almost extinct, though.
Apr 13, 2020 12:26 AM # 
Nothing from JK 1979, sorry (except for the training map and a disappointed training diary entry about mis punching no.1). Before that its just JK 1974 - ps age classes then were 12, 13, 15, 17, 19, 21, 35, 43, 50. At least one other Attackpointer in the M17 - Chas. I ran the relay in the OK Nuts team "Nutty Slack" with Adrian Barnes and Mike Wells Cole. Mike passed away a couple of years later after going for a run not fully recovered from the flu.

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