Register | Login
Attackpoint - performance and training tools for orienteering athletes

Discussion: Liquids

in: kensr; kensr > 2021-01-29

Jan 30, 2021 3:53 AM # 
Generally the blocks and powders run better than liquids when it’s super dry. Definitely worth a test, but we haven’t been finding that liquids add much in the super cold. Last weekend at prospect, the boys (earliest starters) were on star next polar powder, covered with star polar block, fleeced in. After the tracks got skied in, the cold block started winning tests.

Structure matters too - there’s a technique called, eponymously, pink papering, where you use a very fine grit sandpaper (that happens to be pink) on your bases, and it works wonders in very cold abrasive snow. Like lake effect in northern MI.
Jan 30, 2021 2:16 PM # 
Got Star polar powder, but not the block. I assume the powder is hot waxed and not fleeced in. Only have the medium Star block.
Right now I have the Polar liquid on the skis, so I'll try them first. Then will try the powder.
Do you pink paper before the wax goes on?
Jan 30, 2021 4:16 PM # 
Pink sandpaper goes from 400 to 4000 grit. What have you used?
Jan 31, 2021 11:06 AM # 
Eponymously? Named after a Mr or Ms Pink? This exchange is pretty inscrutable for a non-member of the ski preparation conoscenti. Always interesting to see what you experts are up to.
Jan 31, 2021 12:58 PM # 
This is a one-sided-expert conversation.
Jan 31, 2021 1:01 PM # 
Polar powder went on like ball bearings, bouncing all over. Not what I expected from powder, but melted in fine.
Jan 31, 2021 2:51 PM # 
I did the Lapland ski-o on polar powder yesterday. Seemed quite good. But I got a sinking feeling after reading the block fleeced in comment above, then reading the Waxing Paradigms article on Zach's website, and then looking at this:

Also it sounds like technique for applying wax with fleece is going to be a significant determinant of their effectiveness.
Jan 31, 2021 3:52 PM # 
Still confused. Does this have anything to do with Reservoir Dogs? "Hey, why am I Mr. Pink?"
Feb 1, 2021 12:48 AM # 
The blocks and dedicated fleece seem like a determined effort to get the cost up to where fluoros had us last year. Remember Zack is the great experimenter and keeps dreaming up waxing improvements. I like to listen to Alex as she has to live with the team's results on the snow.
Feb 1, 2021 8:01 AM # 
hahaha I love that my reaction to the cost of the Next case was "it's not that expensive, maybe we should get two so that we don't have to keep carting it from the trailer to the wax room"

You gotta be kind of delicate applying the powders, as they'll roll. I sprinkle it on, and then use a finger to swipe it from the groove. Melts in beautifully though.

Pink paper is after waxing; same as you would hand structure with a riller. They sell a little block you can put it on to keep a flat surface, but I'm also sure you can improvise. Probably closer to 1000 grit. This is what the branded stuff looks like:

You really don't use it in many conditions around here, but in Birkie-land it's probably more relevant more often.

Charlie, I don't think I used that word to its exact definition, but perhaps Mr. Pink was involved.
Feb 1, 2021 11:16 AM # 
double haha -- "not that expensive" ... boy have times changed since you became a pro!

You're right about Birkie-land, start temps are often just above 0F.

The polar powder ran well yesterday in the low teens. Didn't have any pink, however.
Feb 1, 2021 5:09 PM # 
Reaction is no doubt relative to the situation. If I was waxing for a team I might well have said oh maybe we should get 2. But for someone waxing for 1 or 2 and rarely entering a race where eeking out the last 2% of ski performance is significant it's harder to make a case for 1. Especially as I keep thinking that with this being the first year post-fluoros and everyone still figuring things out, whatever we buy this year could well be obsolete come next year.

Still it's sometimes fun to play with the new stuff and see what it adds. I should start by finding out if these new brush and fleece rollers will fit on my old rotobrush handle.
Feb 1, 2021 5:44 PM # 
Mitch you didn’t expect going no-fluoro would be CHEAPER, right?
Feb 1, 2021 6:16 PM # 
Well, we were brainwashed into believing more fluoro=faster and more fluoro=more $, so now it’s no fluoro = still more $ and maybe almost as fast as.
Feb 1, 2021 7:34 PM # 
You know, for about the past ~ 10 years I've been wondering why we even still have "ski wax". I keep thinking the next big breakthrough in ski bases is going to be some new nano-engineered material, perhaps multiple versions for differing temp/moisture conditions, that's faster without being waxed. You would have maybe 2-3 pairs of skis to cover the range. Such a product release would threaten the bottom line of the wax companies so conspiracy theory alert: maybe they would buy up such technologies to prevent them from getting to market. Ski bases haven't really changed significantly in what, 40 years now? We just keep coming up with more expensive things to spread on them instead.
Feb 3, 2021 1:01 AM # 
And here's the fleece how-to video, just out yesterday:
Feb 3, 2021 11:41 AM # 
Thanks. Nice discussion. Maybe have to get some more blocks.
Feb 3, 2021 2:24 PM # 
It was nice to hear you don't necessarily need a separate fleece roller for each block, but I was surprised to see him blow them out with compressed air while not wearing a mask or face-shield.
Feb 3, 2021 3:33 PM # 
I asked him about that and he said those paraffins are harmless. Yeah, just like the fluoro fumes were at first.
Feb 5, 2021 2:22 PM # 
and I just about have used up the last of my old carbon waxes and am starting to use the flouros (mostly LF) I've bought the last few years......

Please login to add a message.