Discussion: WMOC 2021 event is to be held!

Some Good News for OLD People:
WMOC 2021 event is to be held!
https://wmoc2021.hu/en/event-to-be-held/

Who is in?

Great news!

Good news for old people who want to catch Covid?

As of April 4, Hungary had the second-highest COVID death rate in Europe, behind only (wait for it)... Czech Republic!

If you look at cases in last 7 days in the whole world:

3. USA (NAOC July)
4. Turkey (JWOC in July
18. Canada
22. Hungary (WMOC, August )
25. Czechia (WOC July)
41. Switzerland (European Championships, May)
141. Australia
out of 153

clearly you should all make plans to go to the Australian Championships carnival in Sept/Oct in Tasmania: https://aoc2021.tasorienteering.asn.au/

Except that you won't get in (unless you're an Australian, or are coming from NZ).

China has quite a low rate, perhaps we should be having our championships there;-)

That's not how it works - you go to a country that has a high Covid rate you catch Covid. No, it is what a person does when there or anywhere that determines the likelihood of catching Covid.
I am not going to WMOC but the reasons have nothing to do with the Covid situation. If I were going this is what I would expect for myself:
-be vaccinated against Covid 19
-I and others would have to show negative result of recent Covid test and be given a distinctive wrist band to wear to prove to others I have tested negative and to be allowed to participate.
-wear a mask as an added precaution
-bypass the large gatherings such as banquets, opening parades and prize-givings.
-stick to myself .
The last two basically take all the fun out of going to a WMOC and take a lot of revenue out of the organizers' pockets but that is what it would take to get me to attend a WMOC or to NAOC for that matter. That plus the Canadian rule of compulsory hotel quarantine rules on return by air travel.

What's stopping me from going would be the inability to leave this country and presumably the ridiculously high airfare involved. Plus as a 40y.o. white male not involved in frontline employment, I think I'm last on the list of those to be vaccinated in this country.

but the reasons have nothing to do with the Covid situation

Every reason you've mentioned seems to be related to Covid...

Pandemic is here to stay. We have to learn to live with it. Many old people and young people have been vaccinated in US and most old people will be vaccinated in many countries by August. But I think it is up to an individual to decide what they want to go or not.

Problem is how to get into Hungary...

Pandemic is here to stay because of idiots like you who won't change their behavior to help us end it!

Please.

edwarddes that is a totally uncalled for shot.

Tricky suggest you re-read my post and try a little harder to get the sense of what I was writing.

That's not how it works - you go to a country that has a high Covid rate you catch Covid. No, it is what a person does when there or anywhere that determines the likelihood of catching Covid.

Yes and no. The rate of COVID-19 infections is a huge factor in addition to people's behaviour, given that few travel-related activities involve zero risk. Is it risky to dine indoors at a typical restaurant? That depends. This week it's low risk in Yellowknife and high risk in Michigan. In which place would there be less risk in staying in a hotel with a ventilation system you know nothing about? People aren't wrong to take the COVID-19 infection rate into account in their decision making.

@EricW @gordhun: angelica has history on this topic on Attackpoint, and has made a lot of enemies on this subject. They don't all comment, but they certainly remember. I suspect the comment was directed at her, not at @gordhun.

Is it possible for us to have disagreements with each other without becoming enemies? It's a pretty small community after all.

I hope it's okay for me to quote something from an AttackPoint log, 12 days after a positive covid diagnosis and after some rough times:

When I woke up this morning, I was lying in bed, thinking about when I might start to think about exercising again and what that might look like. Then I sat up and drank the glass of water by my bedside. I had to catch my breath after drinking that glass of water, so my return to exercise is going to be pretty slow.

This from someone who had been observing reasonable caution, but caught it anyway. It can be far from trivial.

@fossil: small and growing smaller all the time. But, that intimacy helps to make our enemies stand out better, I suppose.

Somehow I find topics that stir a lot of heated discussions. I find reasons with many other friends of different political views, religious views or other beliefs, but seems many orienteering people get angry and hard to reason. It seems that some orienteering people hold grudges forever on each other. Not just from this year Covid related…
I wonder why?
I do think Covid is real and I also do think we have to learn to live with it! I think we are all entitled to our opinions. Getting mad and be offensive isn't the only way to communicate... (edwarddes)

Orienteers are actually a lot more friendly, cooperative, and congenial than some other groups of people I associate with.

jjcote:
what I see is.. many people who leave orienteering never come back even thought they love orienteering.
I can think of many people leaving orienteering because of some kind of disagreements.
Also we tend to argue more with each other - are you on Facebook at all?

No, I'm not on Facebook. But orienteers are much more pleasant people (in general) than hang glider pilots, for example. That's my perception, at least.

I'm sure some of us have the ability to bring out the best in people!

I don't know what part of the internet angelica regularly visits but I'd say AP is one of the more civil places.

Cristina..
calling people "idiot" isn't very civil.

True, much more civil than FB, but generally closer-knit, so the molality is higher.

No, calling someone an "idiot" is not very civil, but it's also fairly rare for AP. And very mild language for the internet.

ETA: Not excusing name-calling on AP, just resisting the notion that AP is a particularly toxic place.

And the name calling was immediately met with calls to tone it down.

gordhun I did figure you weren't going for other reasons but then your final comment stated 'that is what it would take to get me to WMOC' so it confused me!

tRicky I see your point. I'll amend it to read 'that is what it would take to get me to attend a WMOC if I were to go which I'm not.' or something like that.

I'm easily confused. I had been looking forward to Japan WMOC this year though now no-one really has any idea if or when that will go ahead.

There definitely won't be a Japan World Masters Games (or WMOC) in 2021. At this stage World Masters Games will be staged in 2022, and will have orienteering but it will not be a WMOC. (An option which is being considered if Hungary doesn't go ahead is to run the "2021" WMOC with WMG).

I don't have an issue with the organisers pressing on at this stage if they're prepared to take the financial risks of low entry numbers or a late cancellation. (Personally, with vaccinations rolling out, I'd put the chances that the situation in Europe will have improved enough by August to allow the event to go ahead, and reasonably free movement within the EU which would make up 80-90% of normal WMOC entries, at somewhat greater than 50%).

https://wmg2021.jp/en/
"The 10th World Masters Games will be held in May, 2022 in Kansai, Japan."
(delayed a year - which is why IOF asked around for other countries to host WMOC in 2021 - next year's WMG appear to still include orienteering as per the sports list but those races won't be called WMOC 2022 as these were already allocated to Italy by IOF)

TBH though, I'm not convinced that even by mid 2022 Australians will be permitted by our government to travel internationally and return to Aust.

Yes I saw the webpage that said WMG 2022 in Japan but "2021" WMOC at the same event seemed dependent on whether Hungary would go ahead this year.

I'm personally hoping to be able to go to the O-Ringen this summer, but am holding off on getting plane tickets until I get some indication that I'll be allowed into Sweden.

I'm not sure where Blair gets his optimism re vaccination in Europe, but my impression is it's not rolling out fast enough. At least here in Germany we're only jabbing over-70-year-olds, and (due to political games or truly due to significant blood clottings?) we're disqualifying some manufacturers and thus reducing available doses. Maybe in summer the categories W/M65 will be vaccinated, I very much doubt W/M35's will be.

Some data to support my (at least current) pessimism - share of fully vaccinated people in orienteering countries with probable WMOC-participation (hope I didn't miss any):
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-people-fu...
(Germany 6.2%, that matches my pessimism / Hungary 13.4%)

Admittedly, the share of people with at least partial vaccination looks a bit more promising, assuming second jabs will happen in time for WMOC:
https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/share-people-va...
(Germany 16.8%, Hungary 31.4%)

AFAIK second jabs are being delivered according to pre-determined schedule and even with some countries opting to alter the manufacturer's recommendations somewhat, most vaccines have between 30-80 days lag. I would think that it is pretty safe to assume that the vast majority of those who got the 1st by now, will be fully vaccinated by July at the latest (not to mention the partial but still relatively good protection the 1st jab gives, and the 1 component vaccine that will also have been given to many by then). Of course, it is still unlikely to get to a level where you can talk about herd immunity, so other protection measures will be advised (and/or required).
I think generally speaking travel regulations, vaccination situation, infection rates etc will look very different in about 2 months time, so I welcome the fact that the refund policy have been changed for those that want to keep their options open and their eye on the situation before finally commiting. (i.e. you can cancel by 1st June and get all your money back, and if the organisers have to cancel for whatever reason, also you get all your money back)

This does not help everyone, but may help some.

@jj, good thing you were holding off... sadly you'll need to wait until 2022:
https://www.oringen.se/213/english/nonyear-pages/a...

Yeah, I got unofficial word on that a couple of days ago (I'm well connected...). Another year for me to continue learning Swedish.

You should be fluent by then.
Hur går det med svenska språket?

Långsamt. Jag kan inte ens läsa barns böcker än, men jag försöker, lite varje dag.

Scary, but I can read that exchange. Couldn't write it, though. I am well behind J-J.

I got the "långsamt" thanks to my modest German knowledge. Alas the little bit of Finnish I've learned doesn't help with anything except Estonian.

Knowing a little Finnish might be extra incentive to go to Hungary because Finnish and Hungarian are in the same language family.

The theory that Finnish and Hungarian are in the same family is debatable. Even if they are they are so distantly related that there is no benefit.

English is distantly related to as Hindi, knowing English will not help you understand Hindi.

It is a lot easier to learn Swedish than Finnish. Swedish and English are very closely related. Finnish is one of the harder languages for English speakers to learn. The only harder languages (at least among relatively commonly learnt languages) are Arabic, Chinese, Japanese and Korean.

According to the Scientific American: . . . ability to learn a new language, at least grammatically, is strongest until the age of 18 after which there is a precipitous decline. ... Finally, changes in the brain that continue during the late teens and early 20s may somehow make learning harder.

You are too old JJ - might as well give up now. Although there are theories that psilocybin can improve learning - so maybe do some magic mushies before you start a Swedish study session.

Finnish is, however, closely related to Estonian. I don't speak either one, but I can translate Finnish into Estonian. It's easy: just leave the vowel off the end of every word.

Hahaha. Nice theory, but doesn't work even for simple things like EN:thanks = FI:kiitos = EE:aitäh. Actually I honestly wonder where you learned that theory, I can't think of very many words in Finnish that end with a vowel that could be removed?

EE:pulma = EN:wedding
FI:pulma = EN:problem

But some say it is in practice the same thing.

Ooops. I think that's what's called a "false friend" in translation.
(And it doesn't follow JJs "drop the vowel"-theory)

yksi kaksi kolme = üks kaks kolm
sauna = saun

That's enough of a pattern for me, and I declare victory and walk away. :-)

This is when you say you're Finnished with the discussion.

Estonishing!

Barnböcker är en bra start!

Pippi Långstrump var nog en orienterare också?

Pippi var sjörövare på de sju haven.

Sjörövare fanns inte i min vokabulär.

Ma pirati, sapete di cosa si tratta

But wouldn't that make a great "false friend" again, if only it could literally be translated as "sea-rover". Sadly, it's more like "lake-robber". Alas...

Jag har en bok, "Megakillen och havets skräck". Det finns en man som heter Rödskägg, han är "pirat". (Men Kapten Baxter vet inte om hans skägg verkligen är rött, eftersom han är färgblind.)

Quality hijack.

Precis.

Men eftersom vi säkert kan anta att skägget inte var grönt, kunde vi kan slutsatsen att det förmodligen var röd. (Yes, I know there are different kinds of colourblind)

As someone with protanopia, I can assure you that it doesn't work that way. :-)

I feared you'd say something like that...
Så, ska vi atergå till ämnet WMOC? :-)

It's so hard to predict. Right now, for Americans, it would be impractical (but not impossible) to go to Hungary. But in four months? Let's hope things improve dramatically.

WMOC, and then Jukola a week later!

Jukola!! Makkara!!

jjcote: speaking and understanding spoken Swedish is, imho, the hardest to master. I found that working my way through the free app Duolingo was very helpful. I had, however, taken several f2f Swedish courses prior to that and had lived in Sweden for over a year. Unfortunately, the younger Swedes generally speak very good English so when I'd speak Swedish, many of them would respond in English!

Duolingo is what I've been doing, getting pretty close to completing the course. But yeah, Swedish is one of the most useless languages in the sense that there's virtually nobody who speaks Swedish who doesn't also speak English.

J-J, very true, but we did have a situation where a Scandi language was necessary with a Swede! We had a Swedish midwife present when Lukas was born and Melissa, in her state of pain/delirium couldn’t handle understanding Swedish or speaking Norwegian. The midwife didn’t understand English (or at least claimed she didn’t) so Melissa would speak English to me, I’d speak Norwegian to the midwife who would respond in Swedish, and then I’d translate back to English for Melissa. Totally bizarre experience, 3/10 would not do again.

Also never thought I’d be talking about that day in a thread about WMOC on AP.

Very interesting, Christina. And bizarre, as you say. Good that it worked well!

Why do you have to bring my parents into this?

Several years ago I was watching my Danish friend Max speaking with a group of Swedes and Norwegians and I asked him what language they were speaking. Each of hem spoke his own, and the others understood. But Max said he couldn’t actually speak either Swedish or Norwegian. Then I asked them about how they communicated with the Finns on the trip and he said no, that they couldn’t.

Now a week before the second deadline for entries, a reflection on some of the stats in Hungary referred to in this thread about a month ago (using the same sources as in the thread earlier, unless otherwise noted)...
- COVID vaccinations (at least 1 dose): ] 52%,
- Share of the population fully vaccinated: 31.8%
- New cases per million, rolling 7 day: 55.8, 74th in the world (EU avg is 109.8, US is 75.16)

So the trend is improving and towards less and less risk. Let's hope this carries on. More info on travel, regulation situation etc. on the website which the organisers update every fortnight: https://wmoc2021.hu/en/covid-19/covid-19-updates/

As someone who entered I hope there will be more and more people who can come in a safe manner so it gets closer to the feel of a normal WMOC as much as reasonable.

Sadly, it is the same time as the US Champs in CA ( I hope it is still ON) and I won't be able to make to WMOC!

After today's news update we in Victoria will be lucky to be allowed to leave our houses by the end of this week. The Aus Rogaine Champs this weekend have now all but been ruled out for those entered from this state.

@Psuba, thanks a lot for revisiting this. Yes, Hungary has quite an impressive second-jab ratio, double the ratio of most other European countries it looks like.

Meanwhile @stalas - come on, go get your second dose, you're ruining the Isle-of-Man stats! ;)

@jSh: no rush for me, I cannot possibly participate on WMOC. My brother is the course setter for the forest qualification, and I am not good enough to claim that it makes no difference ;-)

In any case, on the IoM 85% of the vaccinable population got their first dose, and 33% got their second. So we are doing pretty well. In 2 months we shall be around 85% for both doses.

Always ready with a dig Sandor! Heh heh. (I could once have talked about "needling" before that became a rather more positive word.)

Looks like you're having your own jab at him.