Discussion: 8th Annual Susquehanna Stumble

Just a reminder that the 8th Annual Susquehanna Stumble will take place next Sunday, Nov 20. The Stumble is a goat-style mass start event similar to the Billygoat, but with the added twist that along the course there are a number of "windows" of 3-5 controls each which you can take in any order, then continue on the course. Long (16.75 km, 40C) and Short (9.5km, 26C) stumbles are offered. The famous Stumble Towels with unique artwork by D.C. artist Ian Whitmore are awarded to top 10-20 finishers on each course! YOW!! WYO Rec courses will also be available. This year's race will be on two maps with an exhange. The first map is Hammonds Rocks, which features very open forest and Harriman-like rock features:

Example Rock Feature 1
Example Rock Feature 2
And a photo of the Stumble Start location

This map was used for the SVO Short and Classic A-meet in 2002. The second map is Pine Grove Furnace, used for the US Intercollegiates some time ago and featuring the mid-point of the Appalachian Trail. The forest here is also very open with some areas of mapped laurel, but not as much rock detail. Charcoal terraces aplenty!

The entry deadline is Monday (just have to let Brad know so we have a pre-drawn map for you). I will be at the Fair Hill meet this weekend, so you can also just tell me and I'll put your name on the list. I'll be drawing maps next week. Event info and directions can be found on the attackpoint events list here, or at the SVO website.

Camping is available on the map at Pine Grove Furnace SP, and there is also a Hostel ($15-$17/night) on the map just a few kms from the start in case you want to come up Saturday evening or stay over Sunday. I'll probably be at one of those two myself Sat night. The mapper lived at the hostel while mapping...its quite nice.

Make your plans now to follow Clem (today's Fair Hill Sprint winner) for as long as possible!

will there be any rocky reentrants?

yes.

Whoa, do I know where that start location is? As do everyone else who has posted so far?

If any of you are thinking of coming to the Stumble it would be a good idea to send an e-mail to me or Brad Whitmore ASAP (if you haven't already done so). I'm drawing maps this week.

Last call for early Stumble registration. I need to know in the next couple of hours or so. You can still show up day-of and pay the day-of prices ($5 more). I will have a few extra pre-drawn maps, but once those are gone it'll be draw your own course. Send e-mail to whitmore@stsci.edu and bergeron@stsci.edu. Weather looks nice for this weekend!!

I'm looking forward to going. Are there any specific course notes other than the distances, number of controls, windows, mass start, rocky reentrants and fast woods? I don't see any more details on the page linked above. How about the punch cards and 40 controls? Will they be exchanged at a map exchange aid stop or should we plan on carrying two cards?

I made custom punchcards for both long (40) and short (25), with lettered boxes for the window controls and numbers for the others so they match the clue sheet. Clues will be available at registration Sunday. Clear tape and contact paper (+scissors) will be available for you to use on your cards any way you like. The Short card is "standard" size, the Long card is 1/4 of a 8.5x11" page on paper card stock, so you will want to protect it either in your map case, a card holder or with tape/contact paper.

The only notes are regarding road crossing safety, the map exchange, private property and unmapped logged areas. Notes will be available at registration and will be announced verbally just before the start. Also will explain how the "windows" work for anyone running their first Stumble.

Mass start is at High Noon. Rec starts 11AM-2PM. Parking will be at the Laurel Lake parking area of Pine Grove Furnace State Park.

Oh, its 5-7 mins walk to start from registration, so give yourself enough time to fix up your punchcard and walk with the group to the start for announcements. Will probably walk over at about 11:40.

I wanted to thank Brad, Eddie, and the rest of SVO for a great day. Beautiful park, perfect weather, and a physical course made for a lot of fun for my first Stumble. Look forward to next year!

I'd like to second Eric P.--I enjoyed today very much! Thanks for the great meet!

I agree! Maybe the Stumble could always be there because it gives me a great excuse to get out to a very nice area...

Thanks Eddie and all helpers for a great courses and meet. And sure weather was awesome and very fast woods:))

So who took home the laurels?

Again, a nice course on a nice day. Thanks Eddie for a fun course - I love mass starts and I got to do two of them :)

Two questions remain:
- Were there to Control t's? Angelica insists she punched one control 't' that was on a different (wrong) hill (~50+m SW of the correct location), then while running NE toward the finish, she came across another hill with another control 't'...
- What was Eddie doing that kept him from getting to the map exchange on time? ;)

I just read Clem's log - I don't think T was stolen - it was misplaced, and then someone went out and put another one in the right place. That explains Angelica's story (she didn't like my suggestion that maybe she'd run in a circle and found the same control twice... but she'd been out for 3 hours at that point so... But she's right. Rule #1: The boss is always right. ;)

Winners of the Long were Vadim Masalkov and Angelica Riley.

And winners of the Short were Clem & Sandy/Dasha (holding hands? ;)

Interesting. Brad hung that loop in the morning, and Brad went out to replace the missing control after Clem reported it missing. He told me he found my streamer when he first hung it (it was correctly placed) and he said he went back to that same location to re-hang after Clem reported it gone and discovered that it was indeed gone. There is no hill 50m SW of the correct one, but there is one 30m NW...maybe thats what Wyatt was mentioning above? Also those two hills are easily visible from each other - you can see at least 100m in all directions from that point, so standing on either hill you'd be able to see the other one.

There is a small formline top on a spur 150m SW. I looked at that location while vetting but decided it was too flat to be a hilltop and it was not used. 30m W from that "flat spur" is a rootstock next to a spring that did have a control on it. Its possible there were mischief makers who moved the first "t" to that other spur, so when Brad re-hung the correct one we were left with 2 in the woods. Mike Ball is going back out tomorrow to pick up a few controls still in the forest. I'll ask him to look around for the extra "t" - particularly on that spur to the SW. Brad picked up that loop and recovered the "t" he had replaced but he didn't notice any others. Note that the first "t" was a laser printed, laminated letter, while the replaced "t" was hand-drawn with a sharpie on a plain index card. Does Angelica remember how the first and second "t"'s looked? Also was she heading towards "t" from that rootstock control when she ran across the phantom one?

The mystery deepens...

It is now a phantom control--an apparition--that comes and goes as it pleases.

Well, I can say that I searched the spur exhaustively so that a control within a 100 meter radius would have been found unless it was in cloaking mode. The spur, from which the small hills sprung, was indeed wide open with good visibility.

In my moments of confusion, I considered that I may have been on the parallel spur to the west but quickly decided that was not the case. However, later I considered that if the control was indeed on a knoll on a spur and I hadn't found it, it may have been on that other one. But, I didn't feel compelled to do a scenario analysis.

One other interesting note--when warming up, I ran along the N/S-ish road to the east of that area. And I heard voices coming from the area I now know may be the scene of the crime.

Maybe a Mythological control.

Supposedly Angelica was coming from S (having done VUWST), was running down a trail (the correct one?) and saw the bag to her right. Checked it, suppsedly it said, 't', and punched it. It seemed odd, and after that, when running toward the finish, she saw another control, looking more like it was on the hilltop, checked it, and it was 't' too.

That's what I remember of the story. I'll ask her to read this to see if she can recall more relevant details.

"There's millions of dollars....buried under a BIG 'T'!!"

"What are you, some kind of a NUT?"

:) Its a MAD MAD MAD MAD world.

Now that we know about the 'T', what were the best window routes? It was trickier this year with two windows back to back.

I measured a couple options for the 2nd and 3rd windows taken consecutively. Doing [I,G,H,F,K,J] & [M,N,L] measured 1,968m. Going with [I,J,G,H,F,K] & [N,M,L] measured to 2,053m. Climb played a big factor too with 19 contours between high and low controls on the first window. Maybe it didn't matter and would cause one to lose more time just thinking about it.

Ok, here's the poop on the mystery "t." Just got this message from Mike Ball, who was out picking up the remaining stumble controls today:

"Before I started picking up controls I went for a trail run. Near the end I ran through Camp Thompson. As I'm running through, I spot a control hanging from a tree! I check it out and it's "t". It was hung just about where the tag line is on the large, broad form-line reentrant south of the large yellow field. I thought maybe it got missed during pickup, but I looked at the master map and it sure wasn't hanging on the knoll!"

Check out Randy's scan of the map to see where that tagline is. Its just north of the left end of the "T", above the kink in Randy's route line. This is consistent with Angelica's report of seeing the control off to her right as she ran down a trail, and then came across the re-hung "t" as she was going from there in to the fininsh.

So it seems that some hooligans moved the flag from the knoll into the broad reentrant and then Brad re-hung a replacement at the correct location after Clem reported it missing. Angelica wins the prize for going to the most controls!

Blasted hooligans!

I resisted the temptation to say "Angelica t-t'ed on the course."

Taking a control? Yes. Then re-hanging it? I suspect some hooligans moved it, and then some hooligans' parent intervened and told them to put it back...