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Discussion: Studs

in: Orienteering; General

May 18, 2022 3:39 AM # 
Sage460:
I am looking at new shoes. I have never had studs. I am looking at VJ Integrator High 5 Orienteering Shoes. How do studs handle bare rock or road?
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May 18, 2022 11:29 AM # 
Charlie:
I've been wearing studded shoes (icebugs) in the forest for over 10 years now. Excellent for general forest or trail running, much better than non-studded shoes on bare rock, although you have to be careful. You can certainly still slip on bare rock, particularly if it is slanted. I would not wear them on the roads, except for short stretches during an orienteering race, and would not wear them in a sprint race. No benefit to them, and they are noisy and less comfortable on pavement than regular soled o-shoes. Also they are likely to be specifically prohibited in sprint races in towns or on campuses.
May 18, 2022 12:32 PM # 
jjcote:
For forest orienteering, or running in snowy/icy conditions, they're all I've used for about 30 years. For regular trail running, I don't find them necessary, and definitely not anywhere that's going to be primarily paved surfaces. On wet bare rock, they're great.
May 18, 2022 12:51 PM # 
JanetT:
Beware those shoes if you have wide feet.

As for studs, I've worn studded shoes since the 90s for orienteering especially in the rocky northeastern U.S. Their grip on damp surfaces and rocks is reassuring.
May 18, 2022 12:58 PM # 
Cristina:
Really disappointed that this thread isn't about the other kind of orienteering studs.
May 18, 2022 2:41 PM # 
yurets:
Studs kill delicate plants and insects
May 18, 2022 3:35 PM # 
jjcote:
Yeah, that's another good thing about them.
May 18, 2022 6:46 PM # 
Sage460:
@ JanetT, Yep I have wide feet. I have shoe stretchers ordered and hopefully that will fix the fit.
May 18, 2022 8:04 PM # 
JanetT:
Good luck with the stretchers. 20+ years ago I bought a pair of the high top Integrators after an ankle injury (probably too long, to fit my foot's width), and promptly developed plantar fasciitis. Hope you don't have the same issue.
May 18, 2022 11:57 PM # 
j-man:
I’m with Cristina.
May 19, 2022 3:12 AM # 
Sage460:
JanetT, I will let you know how it works.
May 19, 2022 4:09 AM # 
gruver:
I too have used studs for decades. Somewhat bemused that they seem to have gone out of fashion round here, but I wouldn't be without them (where permitted). I have seen some johnny-come-lately shoe brands where the studs did not have a good foundation in the sole, and pulled out. But VJ has a long pedigree. Am also curious about shoe/foot width - surely that's an independent feature of a pair of shoes.
May 19, 2022 6:10 PM # 
yurets:
Studs these days are not what they used to be
May 19, 2022 7:08 PM # 
Charlie:
I've worked my way through about 5 pairs of studded icebugs in the last 11 or so years, and the current pair seems to have the best stud retention, now at about 235 recorded miles (and probably a few unrecorded miles as well) and not having dropped a single stud. Earlier pairs seemed less durable.
May 19, 2022 7:45 PM # 
jjcote:
I've got four pairs of studded shoes that are not dead yet:
Inov-8 Oroc 350 - 1367 km (oversized, used mostly in snow/ice conditions)
Inov-8 Oroc 280 - 907 km
Icebug Zeal OLX - 287 km
Inov-8 Oroc 280 - 217 km
My shoe log also shows a pair of VJ Integrators with 633 km, but I don't know where they are (maybe tossed out?) as well as a couple of older pairs that are also AWOL.
All seem to have the studs all intact, I have much more of a tendency to wear out the uppers or have the soles delaminate.
May 19, 2022 8:32 PM # 
cmorse:
I've had 5 pairs of O-Rocs over the past 11 years, 2 pair still in service, over 4200km total on them and never had a lost stud. Like JJ, mine die from sole delamination or upper deterioration - but generally get over 1000km on a pair before I elect to replace them. I wear them for all non-sprint orienteering and quite a bit for winter trail running as well.
May 19, 2022 9:59 PM # 
fossil:
I have seen some johnny-come-lately shoe brands where the studs did not have a good foundation in the sole, and pulled out. But VJ has a long pedigree.

VJ may have a long pedigree but it's only been in recent years that their studs didn't pull out and soles delaminate, whether studded or not.
May 19, 2022 11:13 PM # 
Mr Wonderful:
Not sure about the rest of the studs, some of the inov-8s are all over the place for mileage. I had two sets of Roclites approach 1000 km before the soles fell off - loved them, should have bought a lifetime supply. Meanwhile some racier ones had toes out of the upper in 300 km. Maybe I run through too many briars. On a per mile basis, the IRS says it's cheaper to drive my car than take some Inov-8s through the woods.
May 20, 2022 2:20 AM # 
blegg:
Where do you buy VJ orienteering shoes in the US nowadays? My old VJ's delaminated after I left them in a hot car awhile ago and I'm on the market for a new pair of studded O-shoes.
May 20, 2022 10:56 AM # 
simmo:
I was rather bemused by the original post because for Brits and Aussies all orienteering shoes have studs, ie moulded rubber protrusions. It wasn't until I got as far as JJ's post about Orocs that I realised ('s' intended!) you were all (except for Cristina) talking about spikes, ie small metal points that are set into the rubber studs of some shoes for extra grip.
May 20, 2022 11:12 AM # 
peggyd:
I, too, think of studs as the rubber knobs, and refer to spikes for the metal ones. And I’m American, so it’s not just Brits and Aussies.
May 20, 2022 11:55 AM # 
Chas:
You're all talking about dobs :)
May 20, 2022 11:58 AM # 
cmorse:
blegg - https://vjshoesusa.com/
May 20, 2022 1:43 PM # 
hughmac4:
Except: there are no orienteering shoes at all there, @cmorse. Perhaps contact them?
May 20, 2022 1:59 PM # 
Andre88:
Many US runners buy orienteering shoes here at ALL4o.com - All For Orienteering

Orienteering shoes with metal studs
https://www.all4o.com/with-steel-studs

Orienteering shoes without metal studs
https://www.all4o.com/without-steel-studs

Free shipping ( USPS). Dispatch time: 0-1 business day.
May 20, 2022 2:19 PM # 
jjcote:
I think of the rubber protrusions as cleats, and when I think of spikes, I think of the long screw-in kind like golf shoes used to have that O-shoes had about 35 years ago. The modern dobb style spikes are a lot like what you find in studded snow tires, Though I do often call them spikes.
May 21, 2022 4:17 AM # 
simmo:
But JJ you wear Inov8 - read the Oroc web page: 'Two spikes protrude from sticky rubber studs on the outsole'. Compare with the description for Mudclaw - studs.

'Cleats' these days is used more for describing cycling shoes than soccer, football, orienteering shoes where studs is more common.

Andre88 - All4O are Latvian, English is not their first language.
May 21, 2022 11:22 AM # 
jjcote:
A problem with Eglish English is that it's so widespread that it's almost not exactly one language. Never mind that we can't agree on what to call things on the bottom of a shoe, we can't even agree on how to spell a word like "color".
May 21, 2022 2:21 PM # 
tRicky:
Or Eglish.
May 21, 2022 2:52 PM # 
Jagge:
I think this video by The Rolling Stones is quite relevant
https://youtu.be/6c1BThu95d8
May 22, 2022 6:41 AM # 
blegg:
Thanks for the tips on sources. It looks like the Bermens might still have a few older models too.
May 22, 2022 6:44 AM # 
blegg:
Alternatively, I wonder if you could get an orienteering stud from these folks https://www.nacmo.org/
May 23, 2022 6:30 AM # 
gruver:
Was reflecting on a curious spelling over the weekend and had cause to look up "labor". I found this: "The Australian Labor Party actually began its life as the Australian Labour Party but it switched after a few years to the American spelling. The simple reason given was that it was assumed that Australia would eventually adopt American spelling. The USA of the time was regarded as more egalitarian, and a better model in all ways for a new country." Heh heh.
May 23, 2022 7:07 AM # 
tRicky:
Maybe that's why so many people still spell it as 'Labour' - they don't want to accept any more Americanisms (or they're just dumb Labor supporters that can't even spell the name of their own party).
May 23, 2022 7:21 AM # 
TheInvisibleLog:
Well, we have the most ill-liberal bunch of pollies who call themselves "Liberals". In that context, I think dropping a "u" can be forgiven.
May 23, 2022 11:40 AM # 
jjcote:
There is one notable word in which we Americans do use the 'u', that being "pound". Don't know why it isn't "pond". And you of course have the more clumsy spelling "454 grams".
May 23, 2022 12:26 PM # 
tRicky:
Don't you have ponds in the US or do you call them lakes?
May 23, 2022 1:59 PM # 
peggyd:
We have ponds.
JJ, please explain to the dense among us (speaking for myself). (I think there’s a joke in there somewhere?)
May 23, 2022 2:44 PM # 
yurets:
Australia isn't an independent nation as it remains ruled by the Queen of England as is all "Commonwealth", although that fact is very carefully guarded
May 23, 2022 3:15 PM # 
jjcote:
There's a joke, but it's not a very good one. Just roll your eyes and move along.
May 23, 2022 9:56 PM # 
yurets:
JJ = just joking ... it is a BIG political mistake to underestimate how dangerous England is
May 24, 2022 2:18 AM # 
simmo:
Indeed JJ. It's curious that a nation so keen to change spelling is the last to retain an antiquated and illogical measurement system with a name that you'd think would be anathema to the founding fathers.
May 24, 2022 4:39 PM # 
Mr Wonderful:
Imperial is better conversationally
May 24, 2022 11:04 PM # 
tRicky:
Never mind, in another 50 years when we've all converted to the twadwix system of measurement we'll all look back and wonder how metric was ever a thing.
May 27, 2022 2:44 PM # 
Kitch:
So, to answer the OP.
and this may seem predictable, but... it depends

Dobs grip well on rock, particularly if the rock is greasy with slime or lichen or even just wet - you get a better grip.
This is true as long as the rock is not "too hard"
like for example a certain type of granite near Joensuu in Finland where I once thought I might be headed over a cliff having run confidently out onto a bare slab and discovering that this particular tungsten / granite combo was akin to ice skating.
Tarmac - usually fine, a bit clattery and gets uncomfortable if you go for a long distance on it, but you tend not to. Sharp cornering can be tricky, I did once skate into a ditch when trying to make a sharp 90 degree turn at full speed.
But you get a feel for them
I wouldn't want to wear anything else.
May 28, 2022 10:02 AM # 
Charlie:
Also very good on ice, although I took one of my worst falls on ice with a thin layer of snow on it, just enough to keep the spikes from hitting the ice.

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