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Attackpoint - performance and training tools for orienteering athletes

Discussion: Missing lines in the splits

in: LAOC: Orienteering USA Nationals (Nov 11–13, 2022 - Agua Dulce, CA, US)

Nov 13, 2022 1:04 AM # 
Curiously missing the 9th and 13th results lines in the Blue splits? Is this some new privacy feature? VIPs who dare not be unmasked? or under-13s?
Nov 13, 2022 1:16 AM # 
9th & 13th place were disqualified and placed at the bottom of the list. Interestingly, most DSQs are a result of a mispunch. In this case, it seems that all the controls were punched in the correct order so there must have been some other reason for the disqualifications? It's also interesting that the place values are no recalculated after moving the DSQs to the bottom.
Nov 13, 2022 2:08 AM # 
I wonder if the DSQ are because they entered olive green areas?
Nov 13, 2022 2:18 AM # 
I think it must have been done automatically. Looking at the real times on WinSplits (which gives the clock time), it does not seem like any interaction between those two runners occurred or that either of them were actively following somebody else. However, a lot of their splits look very similar, indicating that if they COULD HAVE followed each other IF they were at those locations at the same point in time (which they were not), because half of their control split times were within 3 seconds of the other.

I am saying this not because I know anything for a fact, but I'm speculating this because I've tried to make a case to disqualify competitors who I could prove were following each other for extended periods of time, but I never actually did anything with the WinSplits evidence and just let the results be.

Could anybody confirm or deny whether there is an automatic algorithm to disqualify runners for suspected following, either on WinSplits or AttackPoint? (I'm curious about this question regardless of what the reason is for this particular instance.)
Nov 13, 2022 4:02 AM # 
I'll stick my neck out here and say there is no such algorithm.
Nov 13, 2022 11:43 AM # 
I'd agree with that. Since they don't even DQ WOC runners for following, why bother with a lowly National level event?

I followed someone for three (non-consecutive) controls today but since it was a head-to-head race with butterfly loops, I feel like this was allowed.

half of their control split times were within 3 seconds of the other.

This is not unusual for a sprint where two runners have similar overall times. I've run a sprint where every single one of my splits was within a few seconds of the competitor either above or below me in the results but with one minute start intervals, it's not possible that any following occurred.
Nov 13, 2022 1:38 PM # 
That's a good point, there's no way to even do that unless you know the start times. And no realistic way to distinguish between a blatant follower and someone being followed.
Nov 13, 2022 3:10 PM # 
the way to know the actual clock times is through the "Real Times" option on WinSplits, which gives the actual timestamp for when everybody visited the control.

And I'm sure the difference between WOC runners following and other events' runners following is that there is a possibility that some people have no idea what to do in some cases.
Nov 13, 2022 3:11 PM # 
But yeah, competitive sprint times can be very similar at the top levels, I was just coming up with a possible theory as to why the DSQ happened, because I also didn't know.
Nov 13, 2022 9:17 PM # 
I've tried to figure out DSQs myself sometimes, particularly in bush events where there are no OOB areas (generally the organisers don't publicly advertise the reasons), but unless you ask the organisers or the affected participants the answer may never be known. I think sometimes even the event software incorrectly categorises people as DSQ when it is meant to be some other option although likely not in the above case where all controls were visited in order. My bugbear is when people are categorised as MP when it is clear they quit the course halfway through but because they may have punched the finish (usually to turn off SIAC), it gives the wrong classification and the download team doesn't change it.

We have one participant who likes to DSQ himself if he breaches OOB, even unintentionally - this happened recently at a MTBO event but I told him not to because the tiny area in question looked as though it was just not mapped properly and could have been read two ways, plus the leg was setup that his and many others' route choice was a very obvious way to go.

Most likely cause at a sprint is as Janet suggests, breaching OOB and either being seen to do so or owning up after the fact.

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