in: Orienteering; Training & Technique;
| # Posted 2008-04-16 07:41:31 | |
| mouse136: | What has been the best coaching tip you have ever received or handed out?
My first ever coaching tip i received was to always orient my map to north. Lets get a good list of tips and someone might collate them and publish them sometime. |
| # Posted 2008-04-16 07:50:04 | |
| Ricka: | Plan a leg 'backwards'.
Focus on Control Circle; then Atttack Point; then route. |
| # Posted 2008-04-16 08:23:05 | |
| Olly: | R.T.F.M.- Read the $#% map
it never fails |
| # Posted 2008-04-16 08:43:44 | |
| Milo: | Coaching.. What's that? |
| # Posted 2008-04-16 16:20:04 | |
| z-man: | keep it stupid simple. |
| # Posted 2008-04-16 21:35:31 | |
| Acampbell: | Yeah I love C.A.R!!! (control, attackpoint, route) but not too good at remembering to do that.
run around in the terrain before you go out so that your feet are wet/muddy/dusty/sandy/what ever before you even start. Saved me so many times as that way i didn't care to run right through a marsh or something to keep my bearing (before i would run around and then mess up, silly i know) |
| # Posted 2008-04-16 21:44:25 | |
| tonec: | Do lots of hard work, the rest will come.
What doesn't kill you makes you stronger... |
| # Posted 2008-04-16 23:31:32 | |
| randy: | Run mass start races with people better than you. |
| # Posted 2008-04-17 01:29:35 | |
| BorisGr: | Don't just look under your feet - try to look up and see as much as you can around you as you are moving through terrain. (PG, US junior training camp at Northfield Mountain, 1996 (?)) |
| # Posted 2008-04-17 04:18:45 | |
| Jordan.Laughlin: | Have variable speeds. |
| # Posted 2008-04-17 07:07:34 | |
| Rosstopher: | Keep your eyes up, see the terrain. ( BorisGr, Jukola 2005. which apparently is recycled knowledge). |
| # Posted 2008-04-17 07:12:12 | |
| cporter: | As soon as you aren't sure where you are, the best thing to do is backtrack to the point where you last knew where you were on the map (the sooner you recognize that you're lost the better). It saves so much more time than wandering around aimlessly, hoping that eventually you will match the map and the terrain up again (or just stumble on the control). It can also prevent you from wandering way of course, or even off the map! (I think this came from Pavlina Brautigam during JWOC in 2000) |
| # Posted 2008-04-17 22:00:46 | |
| Nikolay: | Traffic light orienteering. Each leg has speed sections: green (run as fast as you can), yellow (be carefull, more map reading, expecting to hit, see, pass a feature and need some attention to the map and/or ) and red (tricky sections, approach to tricky controls, difficult terrain) sections.
When planning your route (backwards as pointed in an earlier post) figure out the transitions to the different sections on the leg. When you reach a transition lets say green/yellow slow down and be prepared to expect/do whatever the reason for the yellow section. |
| # Posted 2008-04-17 22:15:39 | |
| Nikolay: | Taking compass bearing.( Azimuth):
1. Stop or slow down when taking the bearing to increase its precision. 2. Look further ahead on the bearing line and select a tree to run to. 3. Run as fast as you can to the tree (this is an orienteering free distance that you can run as fast as you can.) 4. Look at your bearing and select another tree. Repeat 2 - 4. Variation of this is when you are closing up to the chosen tree (say 10, 20 meters), look right behind the tree and choose another tree. Then just continue running full speed to the second tree. This saves the time to look at your compass bearing every time. Be carefull with that in dense forests when zigzaging to the selected tree. |
| # Posted 2008-04-17 22:22:48 | |
| Nikolay: | Know the direciton you need to leave the control you are approaching. A look at the map and the next control direction before reacing the control saves you at least couple of seconds of standing and looking at the map at the control.
This goes along with the rule to have your plan for the next control ready before reaching the current one. |
| # Posted 2008-04-17 22:34:03 | |
| Nikolay: |
Olly R.T.F.M.- Read the $#% map Second that. If you are in a yellow section of a leg make conscious effort to look at your map at short intervals. You should be running slower than you can and would like. If in red section, you better be moving with speed that you can read comfortably the map. |
| # Posted 2008-04-17 22:34:56 | |
| Nikolay: | Use your tumb/tumb compass edge to point where you are at the moment and hold to it while you run. Next time you look, your eyes can go directly to your tumb/edge and you don't loose time relocating yourself on the map/leg your are currently running. |
| # Posted 2008-04-18 00:42:33 | |
| Gil: | "Develop good habits" - it's a generic advice I received from my orienteering coach. His reasoning was - when you get tired, overheated, dehydrated, stressed, etc. and can't think clearly your subconscious takes over and subconscious starts executing whatever habits you have developed (imprinted). |
| # Posted 2008-04-18 11:38:25 | |
| mindsweeper: | Don't hit the trees, they slow you down. |
| # Posted 2008-04-18 17:32:41 | |
| gas_turbine: | Relevant from today's "quote of the day:"
Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. - Douglas Adams |
| # Posted 2008-04-19 10:04:36 | |
| smittyo: | Never go faster than you know where you are on the map. |
| # Posted 2008-04-19 14:49:51 | |
| Old_Fox: | stop running, go orienteering :) |
| # Posted 2008-04-19 21:15:26 | |
| simon: | "Look as far as you can", by french team orienteers.
Also there was another motto for french juniors, "c'est pas la bolivie ici" (roughly "Bolivia is not here"). It's a mnemonic sentence which stands for C PA LA BO LI VI I CI: C = Condition physique (physical shape) PA = Point d'Attaque (attack point) LA = Ligne d'Arrêt (catching feature) BO = BOussole (compass) LI = suivre les LIgnes (follow lines, or linear features) VI = adapter sa VItesse (adapt your speed) I = Itinéraire (route choice) CI = Concentration Intense (intense concentration?) Short, quintessential version: PA LA BO LI (attackpoint, stop lines, compass, linear features) It's from the old french junior website, full of precious hints on orienteering, unfortunately only in french. |
| # Posted 2008-04-20 00:02:25 | |
| chitownclark: | Unless it is really raining, lose the plastic map case before you start. Then fold, fold, fold your map, gently down your course.
While you're completing one leg, refold your map, with North along the two side folds, to reduce the size of the map to just the new leg. Not only does this focus your eyes on the leg itself, but gives you a sharp, easy North reference line for those using a thumb compass. |
| # Posted 2008-04-20 19:05:22 | |
| simmo: | Concentrate! Concentrate! Concentrate! I never make mistakes, except when I don't follow this rule - which is often.
Mindsweeper, you must have been playing CF too much. |
| # Posted 2008-04-20 23:54:36 | |
| gas_turbine: | Careful. We don't want to learn from this.
- Bill Watterson |
| # Posted 2008-04-21 06:01:36 | |
| jjcote: | You can't run up a reentrant, and you can't run down a spur. (This requires some explanation, which I'm too tired to provide right now.) |
| # Posted 2008-04-21 06:47:12 | |
| mouse136: | is that cant or shouldnt? im sure you can run up or down them but at your own peril due to them branching off as you get further down them or up them. |
| # Posted 2008-04-21 07:03:42 | |
| Akomm: | I have to agree with Ricka and Acampbell
CAR (Control, Attack Point, Route) is the best piece of coaching knowledge I have received. I'm not sure where it originated but I learned it from Bob Turbyfill. It forces me to plan each leg and stay focused. A good, easy acronym. |
| # Posted 2008-04-21 07:04:00 | |
| Samantha: | Never give up. No matter how many mistakes you are making, others may be making more. |
| # Posted 2008-04-21 07:19:43 | |
| jjcote: | due to them branching off
Precisely. |
| # Posted 2008-04-21 20:19:58 | |
| BillJarvis: | JJ - I have never heard that advise before ...it is extremely interesting. I do tend to run along, but above reentrants ...mostly to avoid debris that accumulates in them, but also to stay high where more can be seen. But when on a spur are you suggesting to just take a bearing instead of trying to follow the spur?
Clark - who gave you advise to fold a map like that? You would need really big hands to also be able to thumb where you are wouldn't you? Bill |
| # Posted 2008-04-21 20:22:08 | |
| toddp: | You can't run up a reentrant...
Hmmm... Are you are saying that running up a reentrant entails more navigational risk than running down because re-entrants present forks to those running up? |
| # Posted 2008-04-21 20:24:34 | |
| Bash: | Unless it is really raining, lose the plastic map case before you start.
But be careful! An experienced orienteer did this on the Long course at the 2006 North American O Champs. The race directors waited and started to worry just a little. When I had to leave, I found her about a kilometer away walking along the road. Her map was soaking wet and missing a large triangle representing about 2/3 of the map area - turns out she'd slipped while crossing a marsh and had to bail out to a far-away road that she vaguely remembered. |
| # Posted 2008-04-21 20:43:50 | |
| jjcote: | The principle is that reentrants branch when you're heading up them, and spurs fork as you head down them. It's a generally safe (from an engineering perspective, one might use the term "stable") navigational move to "run down a reentrant", since you won't accidentally head down the wrong one — in fact, if you're in the wrong one, you may get funneled into the right place as you head downhill. The reentrant forms a reliable handrail. But it's not so straightforward to just head up a reentrant, as you can easily go up the wrong branch if you aren't paying close attention. The same principle applies in the opposite direction when it comes to running up and down spurs: up is okay, but down is risky. Now, if you've got a good map, adequate experience, and visibility is adequate, you can keep track of exactly where you are, and this advice is a bit less important. But when it comes to, e.g. the middle of a Rogaine, when you have a map that may not show some of the smaller features, and you can't see very far because it's dark, this concept becomes critical. |
| # Posted 2008-04-21 20:52:46 | |
| ndobbs: | strange, I was under the impression one should do the opposite: run up reentrants and down spurs...
gives better visibility when you need it, and less risk of unnecessary climb... shouldn't make mistakes when going up reentrants in any case cos you can't run *that* fast... |
| # Posted 2008-04-22 01:39:14 | |
| Geoman: | Here is California we teach to run the spurs rather than the reentrants (up or down) because of the possibility of rocks, debris or steep sides. But for milder terrain JJ's tip makes navigational sense. I had never heard it. |
| # Posted 2008-04-22 05:02:04 | |
| jjcote: | It's good advice for those who are learning, intermediate level orienteers. And in the dark, it's often wise to revert to intermediate level techniques. |
| # Posted 2008-04-22 09:16:35 | |
| simmo: | Don't try it in Australian gully/spur terrain. Here the rule is definitely up spurs, down gullies. If you follow a spur downhill downunder you could easily take the wrong one and end up 500m from where you want to be, with a deep gully between you and the correct spur.
In many Australian gullies its difficult to stay on the 'main one', as many tributaries actually look bigger than the main stream at the junction. There is a 3rd part to the rule - through saddles. Saddles are safe - they're good things to look for when making route choices. NB You don't have to be 'in' the gully, or 'on' the spur, so long as you can see them - that way you avoid the vegetation that often clogs gullies or the rock outcrops that often make the spur line hard going. |
| # Posted 2008-04-22 15:37:20 | |
| camel: | Run to the middle of the circle as fast as you can.
Repeat. |
| # Posted 2008-04-23 01:58:50 | |
| Nikolay: | I agree with JJ that down reentrants and up spurs simplifies navigation, but the rule I have been taught when attacking a control is a little different.
If given an attack point choice for a control, approach it going up both on spurs and, reentrants. Reasons: You are moving much slower going up. There is more time to look at your map and the terrain. Going up you are looking at the terrain you are approaching from a more leveled and natural angle then when going down. |
| # Posted 2008-04-23 05:04:11 | |
| catherineols: | If you are not where you thought you were, and recognize that you are going into denial ("it must be around here somewhere" when clearly the terrain doesn't match up), verbally say "stop", out loud, to get yourself to admit you have messed up and get on track to correcting yourself. |
| # Posted 2008-04-23 08:28:19 | |
| jeffw: | Unless you are looking for a cliff, I always thought that given the choice it is better to attack from above because you can see more. |
| # Posted 2008-04-23 09:23:46 | |
| mouse136: | in the case of the Aus Easter 3 days check the control number. check there is a flag attached to the stand and check if there is a SI unit on it. |
| # Posted 2008-04-23 09:35:05 | |
| leepback: | catherineols
Watchout - if your talking on course you better go here |
| # Posted 2008-04-23 21:24:17 | |
| Ricka: | Thanks Catherine. I'm willing to admit I'm off-course, but I can never make myself STOP; so the verbal might work for me. But grunting "STOP" could be real disconcerting to another runner just ahead of you:). |
| # Posted 2008-04-24 13:32:49 | |
| Bert Bennett: | Simplify the map Especially in granite terrain
also- don't buy cheap control discription holders which break half way through a course |
| # Posted 2008-04-25 22:58:12 | |
| jingo6390: | keep your focus, when all those about you are losing theirs |
| # Posted 2008-04-26 00:10:56 | |
| Acampbell: | Say what control number your at out loud when you punch. Or example if your at your control number 6 say 6 out loud to your self. Helps you keep track of what control your at so you don't skip over a leg (ex. when i skipped over my control number 9 at the 2006 US champs, might not have done that if i said that out loud) |
| # Posted 2008-04-27 21:53:45 | |
| catherineols: | Ah of course (re: disturbing other runners). But the few times I have had to do this, it is usually because I am in completely the wrong area and nobody is around!! |
| # Posted 2008-04-28 02:59:30 | |
| gas_turbine: | Is there a rule of thumb of when to take a longer path vs. going straight through the thick forest/ground cover? I think I've been trying to crash through too many woods and prickers. |
| # Posted 2008-04-28 04:32:04 | |
| GlenT: | The rule of thumb is to take the fastest route, depending on your strengths. If you run fast, a longer trail route may be faster. If you lack confidence in your navigational skills, a longer but safer route (e.g. with a strong attack point) may prove to be faster. |
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