Discussion: JWOC Video

Has anyone seen the video of the JWOC 07 Sprint Race on World of O TV?
http://tv.worldofo.com/index.html

Doesn't do much for me - another opportunity to produce a good orienteering video lost, I'm afraid. Just shots of people running around interspersed with cute animals, and a muzak sound track that seems more appropriate for WMOC.

Simmo,

Agree the music sucks and since music sets the mood it's difficult for any of the footage to excite.

What were you looking for? What were you expecting to see apart fom people running around? Thats what we do.

Are you looking for different transitions eg ones that flash or great effects like those used in CSI and other TV shows?

Can you show point us to some good examples of orienteering video(s) please.

I would suggest our sport is not the easiest to capture succesfully on video, just as it isn't really a good spectator sport (although some poeple keep trying to make it one in the vain hope well get to the olympics)

BTW I have no affiliation with the video maker(s)

Hey,

I agree Simmo, I find this typical for most O productions. All of the ones that I think are good tell a story, not just show images of people running randomly.

Two examples would include:
Any Tero "Follow Me" video - the story is quite simple in that it just illustrates how a leg was run, and they have used good music, good video image.
Another is the young british guy who explains what orienteering is and involves, the story is obvious as I have suggested.

What I haven't seen other than professional productions like Tio, is a story of what evolved through a race, who won, how they won it etc. This is obviously more difficult, but I wouldnt think impossible. It would require creative cuts to different people, map traces, images of the start (near the start of the video), inmages of the finish and prize-giving (near the end of the video) a graphic with results (as could be done using powerpoint even then transported across to video) and even some commentary overlay (which was certainly available at JWOC). Having enough cuts of the top people is probably the most difficult part of this, but that is why for most professional productions, camera crews are accompanied by orienteers who now whats going on. When editing the final piece you wouldnt necessarily need to show cuts of the top runners "in the place" that you are referring to in your story.

I think all this is quite possible but requires planning ahead of time, and obviously expertise which not many people have. But for a prefessional crew like that at JWOC....

Leepback: Check out good videos through here: http://www.orienteering.asn.au/promotion/devel/vid...

Fatrat

I have seen the "follow me" and others of that ilk but they are a completely different kettle of fish in that they are staged.

(BTW thanks for the link)

You are completely right the JWOC video like most others suffers from a lack of narrative (note: narrative, not necessarily naration)

To add narative would require the types of things you have mentioned but to do so you would need multiple cameras, audio capture devices etc, which would require another level of production and more importantly supervision and direction. All this while producing a world title event is probably a little too much to expect of the organising group involved.

Of course you could throw dollars at it but (as you know) that's precisely what we don't have.

How great would a rogaining video be if we could capture all the happenings and team tensions involved during an arduos 24 hour event. Be terrific reality TV, but where do you find the supermen who not only follow the teams but also carry all the equipment at the same time?

i think we are only missing multiple cameras, but even then you can work around it abit. you could capture different parts of the course, and show splits (even if the footage is not the same person/people as those displayed in the splits, it would still be better. most orienteers would also happily go back in the forest for a short while to capture "staged" footage after the race.

sound bites etc? why do you need that? there was commetary, which was recorded. you can overlay cheers from anywhere... i really don't think its as hard as you suggest, although its clearly not that easy.

the jwoc video was produced by a professional group, it has NOTHING to do with the organisers really. the organisers assisted the crew as they requested. so no, im not asking organisers to do anything more. perhaps what would be good is if someone like me tried to put assist a more planned production when the opportunity arises.

Leepback I run orienteering sessions in schools, and show a British video called 'Orienteering - the first steps' available from http://www.mikes-eye.com/ Its ideal for primary kids before their first lesson.

However, I've struggled almost in vain to find something suitable to show older kids, or to show the primary kids towards the end of their program to get them enthused enough to come to our events. A couple that have worked are a Park World Tour video from 2002 - 2 races in Italy with a great sound-track (see http://www.pwt.org/ click on Video)

I've also played the 2006 WOC DVD with Hanny winning the sprint, but the dvd has too many breaks with an annoying event trailer.

Fat Rat has put links to some good videos up on the OA Development pages http://orienteering.asn.au/promotion/devel/videos/ (edit - you beat me to it FR!)

I like the Thierry Guergiou set, but non-orienteers won't appreciate the level of skill he's demonstrating. tibO! is a really good one for younger kids, as is Orienteering for Beginners made by an 11 year-old. The Scope tv one is quite good for secondary kids.

I guess I'd like to see a video that captures and demonstrates the skills involved - physical as well as technical, shows the adventure aspect, and will attract people to try the sport. If the video is about an event, then I want some (sensible) commentary, and some excitement created by featuring the fastest times - with decisive routes and mistakes shown on map and in the terrain - and eventually determining the winners.

Don't get me wrong guy's, I'm all for great videos of our sport, it's just too easy to be critical when it's a tough ask to create something that stands up to today's expectations.

Obviously the Dubbo JWOC is pretty lame but I'm not sure what was paid out and what the brief was. Perhaps they got what they asked for or like you are disappointed.

I also run introduction courses at a local community college and would love to have great stuff to add excitement so if you find anything else pass it on to me please! (Couldn't find that video/dvd on the mikes-eyes site)

Its not on the site - just send an email to Michael Pearson mikeP@mikeseye.freeserve.co.uk

Before you buy, it is a little dated now, unfortunately I don't have any way of showing it to you.

Simmo

One day I'll make my own video to use but it seems every event I think I'll capture some footage I'm caught up helping out then running myself.

My second interest is short filmaking (video).

Haven't much experience but of the four films we've made 2 have been finalists in the Newcastle Shootout (100-150 teams)

I like to think of this event as an artistic rogaine. It's 24 hour, no editing and you have to include 6 items from a list of 12 that is only provided at the start of the contest. Very tough indeed.

Here is one of our failures (the joke just doesn't work).
BTW: It does involve some running.....enjoy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xqwbn102nvg

Hope you like the music - a friend of mine wrote it and plays all the instruments (clever bastard)

I thought it was quite good actually, including the joke. You might have got there quicker with parkour
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEeqHj3Nj2c

And I struggle to cross small creeks

One team in 2006 made the top ten with a parkour doco -
Point to Point. This stuff really is tailor made for filmimg (although there is never much of a narrative with the exception of point to point and other docos)

I had once thought that a 24-hour rogaine would be the least interesting live sporting telecast imaginable to the outside world - that was until I visited New Zealand and saw a telecast of a round-the-world yacht race in the dark. (You couldn't actually see the boats - which were making their way down the NZ coast - but could sort of work out where they were from the lights on the spectator and support craft).

Blair

Sorry, I'm talking about an edited condensed package of a rogaine (not live) and it's obvious I didn't make that clear.

If "Ladettes to Ladies" can score reasonable prime time figures then I'm sure even the dark bits of a rogaine would be interesting.

I knew that was what you were talking about, just couldn't resist :-)

What about this one:

http://www.veoh.com/videos/v6552110yyqQ46dn?c=woot...

It has a story - and tells you a bit about what orienteering is. It was made by an Italian Sky TV reporter who had no knowledge about orienteering before covering the Mediterranean Orienteering Champs, and wanted to tell his viewers what orienteering is really about. He catches some of it...

That one is quite good but they could have edited out Thierry's nose clearing. That I didn't need to see.

Quite a bit more editing could have been done - the waiting at the start, and the presentations were way too long. It would have been nice to introduce the runners as well. We all know who Thierry is, but my schoolkids don't. Music wasn't great, either.

Now the Long Distance JWOC video is up on World of O. A little better, a couple of interviews at least, but no results and the sound track - Irish jigs, horses neighing - just awful.

Some of the footage did at least show the terrain running and navigation skills of the runners - but a few shots of the map would have been useful.

simmo: Regarding the MOC-video - it was edited in a few hours just after the competition. This is not the final version for Sky TV (which will be in Italian language), but a preliminary version which was made available for woO-TV and the organizers.

So you are perfectly right - it could have needed a lot more editing. I liked the music, though;)

I have to agree, both videos are pretty dismal. However, I may be biased because of the lack of team Canada footage. At least there was nothing as bad as the WOC 2006 theme song... now there was an abomination if I have ever seen/heard one

I think sheep dog trials on NZ TV must come close to night yacht racing.

The JWOC Middle Distance video is now on World of O. Its shorter, the music is a little better, but it's still basically people running through the spectator control or the finish, interspersed with shots of snaggers and burgers. There are also a couple of shots of Scotty in a Crocodile Dundee hat. Please can I watch the sheep dog trials?

simmo: I fully agree - the videos are not exactly interesting to watch. But it is, unfortunately (as far as I know), the best videos available from JWOC. And that is the bad thing...

Sorry, sheep dog trials haven't featured on NZ tv for quite some time now. I think they were all found guilty.

Regarding the JWOC videos... they'd be good as the one minute of atmosphere/introductory footage leading into the real story but don't stand alone for any reason (except maybe a nice souvineer for any of the runners who appear). I'd like to know what purpose they were supposed to serve, especially given their "release" 9 months(?) after the event. Hope not too much was spent on this that could have gone elsewhere in the event budget.

Hi,
My name is Alex Lebedev, and I am one of the editors of woO-TV.
First, what I think about those JWOC videos, I think they are fine. Yes, it shows terrain, it shows the atmosphere of the event. But this is not reportage from the competition, it is not professional TV production like WOC2006 DVD. These videos are part of the JWOC 2007 DVD. This DVD was on sale from JWOC 2007 web site for all this time. Now 9 months ago, owner of this DVD provided woO-TV these materials. This is the reason why they ?released? it only now. As Fat Rat mentioned above this video was produced not by the organizers. There is a big difference between videos filmed for orienteering audience and non-orienteering audience, filmed by orienteering people or non-orienteering people. Ok, JWOC 2007 production could be considered as video for orienteering audience produced by non-orienteering people, and this is not the best example. But for me, as orienteer, it was interesting to watch Australian terrains, watch and feel this competition. Stay tune woO-TV.