Discussion: iMac for Orienteers?

Note: I know this has been discussed here before (links below) but both of these threads are at least 2 years old, which in a technological sense is an enormous amount of time.
http://www.attackpoint.org/discussionthread.jsp/me...
http://www.attackpoint.org/discussionthread.jsp/me...

I'm just about to jump ship from PC to Mac but the old chestnut of legacy PC programs (OCAD and Sportident programs quickly come to mind) once again rears its ugly head. There seems to be three choices (maybe more I haven't yet discovered) to get around this problem. My summary is thus...

1. Bootcamp

Advantages
Free with iMac
No partitioning and hence utilises computers full capacity.

Disadvantages
Reboot required to swap OS
Need to buy a copy of Win OS

2. Parallels (or other virtual machines eg Fusion)

Advantages
No need to reboot

Disadvantages
Computer is partitioned and hence affects performance
Need to buy a copy of Win OS
Purchase cost

3. Crossover (don't know much about this)
http://www.codeweavers.com/products/cxmac/

Advantages
No need to reboot
Doesn't need Win OS

Disadvantages
Purchase costs
Seems to run only a limited amount of windows programs that where some interface has been developed in Crossflow to allow it to happen.

Here (finally) are some questions....

What solution are you Mac people out there utilising and recommend?

Is it worth the switch? (I'd like to hear from former PC users on this one)

I've just ordered a GPS tracking device (Win software) so assume it's unlikely it will run via Crossover. Is that likely to be the case?

What GPS tracking software are you using on the Mac?

Is "Route Gadget" a web based thingy or software package (I've not used it at this point in time), can you utilise it if you are Mac based?

Wow that's a lot so I'd better can it for now and do some more research. Any answers, or opinions to help me with my internal dilemma in making this decision are greatly welcome and appreciated.

Funny reading this now, as I've just installed Parallels this evening (I've been using Virtual PC on an old power PC (the pre intel macs) up to now, Parallels initially seems a lot faster).

Route Gadget generally works on Mac with Safari or Firefox (it's a Java application), but there have been some issues in the past - see here.

I would say that the advantages of a Mac are stability, more secure, and ease of use (and behind the UI is a form of Unix which can be useful if you know Unix). The disadvantage (as you say) is that some software is only available for Windows (although there is some only available for Mac as well).

I got rid of my last PC shortly after writing the second post you linked to. The only reason I was keeping it around was to run OCAD, Catching Features, and a few other minor applications. They all run fine with Parallels and I am able to use my iMac for everything I need to do. You will be able to make the switch and you will have options to make everything work, though as you noted you will probably have to pay for some stuff.

For me, BootCamp is just not an option - I really do not want to have to reboot just to open up something like QuickRoute. I imagine that the only applications that would really see a significant performance improvement by using BootCamp are games. CF runs okay in Parallels, so I haven't bothered with BC.

I haven't tried Crossover in over a year, so I can't give you an update on that. I remember being less than impressed when it first came out.

I don't have any complaints with Parallels. I got some extra RAM for my iMac and don't have any problem running stuff, um, in parallel... Even on my older MacBook with only 1GB of RAM Windows runs fine. Sometimes helps not to have a web browser open on the Mac side.

HTH.

I'm running darwine on a macbook pro at work (free, no need to buy win OS). OCAD6 runs ok there, but I tried to instal the ocad9 demo today and there was some runtime error, so couldn't make it go.

OCAD6 works adequately, but there is a funny thing where I have to move the window slightly to get the pulldowns to work after I make any edits. Some kind of a bug I guess. Its rather annoying having to do this after each edit when I want to change a tool, symbol, etc. But loading files and templates seems to work ok and the speed is reasonable. The ability to run linux (as OSX) and both mac and PC apps simultaneously is a big plus for OSX in my mind. I use my mac mostly for heavy duty unix computing. Despite a keyboard replacement the first week I had it (bad return key right out of the box), I still occasionally have problems like the zero key not working - which is hell if you are writing code.

I've had just as many hardware problems with macs and PCs, and the mac tech support was terrible (all tech support is terrible in my opinion). My mac laptop locks up at least as often as any PC I've used, so on stabilty I'd call them on par. I think the mac hardware is overpriced for what it is, but the software is definately primo. You can get a PC with twice the compute power for the same money, provided you install a reasonable OS (like say linux). But again you are left with either having to run wine or similar to get PC apps or dual booting. I'm torn between a fast, cheap PC running linux or a slower mac for the same money but with a better interface.

As for free/open source, I would add two solutions:

- wine/darwine (like eddie): it's the only one I have used in the past year, and it is sufficient to run the only program I need but cant replace which is OCAD. Not sure it will work with the sportsoftware suite (the club has a bunch of windows laptops for that), and pretty sure it will not work with Catching Features (unfortunately I dont have a lot of time anyway so cant miss it)

- virtualbox: an open source virtualization software like parallels, supported by Sun

Note that apart from the 'emulator' gang (wine/darwine/crossover), all those solutions will require disk partitioning to install a windows system.


For GPS, I use LoadMyTracks/TrackRunner which is great, even unmatched in the windows world as both are free (trackrunner is a log activity soft which comes with graphical analysis, google maps and colour coded trace - perhaps not the best if you want all the details, but perfect in my case). I also use the motionbased website of Garmin to get more accurate elevation (I believe)


I have used windows, Unix/linux (including ubuntu) in the past, major reasons for switching are:
- default softwares are good and tightly integrated - I dont want to look for the right software for each task I perform, so the easier the better.
- minimal maintenance (dont want to lose time choosing the right option or managing the bunch of softwares installed, cleaning the registry, etc)

Granted, no system is perfect so you will eventually run into problem, and MacOS has its couple of usability issues which bug me from time to time. As windows, it is quite closed as a system, so it can be difficult to find what's the problem and find a workaround.

In my opinion, the ubuntu distributions are as good as MacOS, but require different capabilities (ubuntu can be more tightly tailored to your needs if you are ready to do some research). It is a matter of taste.

Like Eddie I've had an equal number of hardware issues with both PCs and Macs. However, I've found the "Genius Bar" support at the Apple Stores to be really good. Apple is also really quick with turnaround if you have to send your computer in to be fixed. And, maybe it has to do with the kind of software I use, but I've found OS X to be more stable than Win XP by miles. Not more stable than any *nix installation, of course, but I think OS X offers many of the advantages of unix without the software hassles (if you don't want them...).

One needs to tread lightly here because threads like this can quickly devolve into arguments by zealots. However, I'd just add two pragmatic observations:

1) What is often referred to as "Windows" being unstable is actually a Windows App being unstable. I support several hundred Windows XP users and I simply don't see issues arising from problems with the operating system. The apps, yeah, they're crap. And yes, you do need to stay current on patches, but that's pretty easy to do. My brief experience with Vista so far has actually been pretty good - I think that OS is getting a lot of bad press from people who haven't used it.

2) Any real OS issues on a physical machine will only be more so on a virtual machine, so if you really need the windows app, don't expect it to run better on a Mac. It will probably run just as well, but it certainly won't be any better.

Slightly at a tangent here - but there are alternatives to OCAD. I (very) recently produced a large ISSOM map - the City of London - using Adobe Illustrator and Adrian Moser's free MapStudio plugin - downloadable at: http://www.mapstudio.info/mapstudio/software/softw...

I'm not saying that it is as full-featured as OCAD, or has many of the specific customisations, but it certainly has potential. The finished map has the same look-and-feel of an OCAD-produced one, as they are both using the same international specification. And it works just fine on a Mac, without getting darwine/cider/parallels/boot camp involved.

Routegadget works fine on a Mac, as any Java program should - there were some quirks a while back but they've been fixed. You can install it on the Apache web server that comes with the Mac, if you want to run a copy locally for your own maps.

For GPS tracking, I use Ascent.

Thanks everyone for all the advise so far and I'm pleased to see that nobody turned into a war between the two camps.

With Parallels (and the like) is it possible to only invoke it if needed so that for the most time it doesn't run and chew up resources or have you already dedicated some of your machine to it regardless?

I only run Parallels when I need to run a Windows program. So, most of the time, Mac OS has 100% of the hardware resources available to it. You can specify details such as how much RAM to allocate to Parallels so that you'll know exactly what's left for Mac OS. I think I have it set to run w/ 1GB (of 2GB) but you can certainly use less.

Thanks Kiki

Looks like I'm heading down that path.
I'm pretty certain I'm going to give the iMac a go!

I think my budget is going to stretch to 4GB of RAM (thanks to Mapgirl's generosity in allowing me to spend so much)

Are you returning to NZ next year for Oceania?
Looks like we won't be able to.

I have been running a macbook pro with parallels now for 2 years. infact we used it At JWOC 2007 to do the most intensive of the tasks. we processed the radio control splits and uploaded them to the web. Yes a Mac with windows installs can completly run an orienteering event.

There is also VMWare Fusion and VirtualBox. I am thinking of seriously giving VirtualBox a try. It is free for personal use.

Thanks O-Master

Helping out at the starts for JWOC 2007 we didn't get to see much of the smarts back at the assembly or much of the action by the time we got back there. Sounds like having a Mac is no impedance to organising events.

I'm just playing the wait and see game while further reading up on all things mac. Heard there were new iMacs imminent next couple of weeks but who knows? Might backfire with (as you'd know) our dollar diving but also thought there might be deals on the older ones.

hi

im looking to buy a mac.
probably a mac book.
i am considering buying the mac second hand.

i was just wondering if anyone on attackpoint has a mac that they are wanting to sell.

thanks.

For all you Mac users out there: due to the Lame Duck Challenge you can download Crossover for free (TODAY ONLY)!

You can do this here: http://down.codeweavers.com/

I have no experience if it works with O-Software but I got a copy, just in case...

wine is the free version of Crossover, the only difference is that you don't have to cover the internet to solve your problem (you payed for your support),
I haven't used mac ever but i have used other unix based OS's (linux)
Ocad8 wine/Xover with minor issues. some of the icons don't show up untill you can use them
Catching Features does not work with wine (and assuming Xover) but it does work with Cedega (i think for mac it is called Cider) but cedega cost about 45$usd a year
I don't know about the SI software but i have been trying to help one of the club members here make a script to read the SI card from *nix (includes mac) based OS. We are able to read SI 5 cards but nothing else, and i haven't been able to work on it for a while because i don't have a SI master box to test my SI 6 card on and SI doesn't like it when you say open source so they haven't given us the way to parse their streams

if you try wine (or Xover ) and your code works please add it to the Wine AppDB here

Resuscitating this thread... So after 2 years, what are your suggestions about o'softwares for Mac?

A friend of mine recently pointed to O-scape for mapping and Prune for GPS routes.
http://www.nopesport.com/news/1343-o-scape-free-or...
http://sourceforge.net/projects/o-scape/
http://activityworkshop.net/software/prune/

O-scape is an extension of inkscape (whose interface I don't like very much) and I haven't tested it.

Prune seems rather complete and well-done, unfortunately it does not seem to support color-coded tracks.

Browsing around I also found trailrunner, which seems more dedicated to route planning/sharing.

I used for a long time TrackRunner, which offers color-coded tracks like QuickRoute, but is *really really* terrible when it comes to adjust a map image. Development has been stalled for 2 years now so no hope on this side.

So, is a virtual Windows/dual boot is still the best choice with Mac?