Discussion: Training volume

How do most orienteers (especially masters with jobs and families) determine the appropriate training (running) volume in terms of weekly, or monthly hours?

I try to add training incrementally until my wife passes me in the hallway in the morning and asks who I am. Then I cut it back just a bit.

I used the braille method. Cut back when I bump into something like work, family etc.As the family has detached itself I thought I would find more time for training. I have, but now the body is less cooperative.

Is there a "rule of thumb" based upon the length of an average course time?

I think it's very much a personal thing. Around 10-15 hours is a good training week for me now at age 45 - I used to do a lot more. I've always responded best to fairly high volume. I know others who do quite well on less.

Given the usual constraints of midlife, the chances of overtraining are pretty much zero. That doesn't mean you can't burn yourself out, though. The added stress of fitting in workouts (particularly if you have a fairly structured plan) around the rest of your life can be a drain. And, of course, if it gets to where the only way you can get in enough training is to trade the time for sleep, well, that's not going to help you much.

One thing that's helped me is combining my training with my commute. I have a pretty nice setup at work for showering/changing (the company has a fitness center on site). It certainly takes longer to ride/run to work, but if you figure you were going to do that amount of training anyway, it's a net savings. Doesn't get you into the woods though, and my technique has suffered from cutting my map sessions back.

I don't have a plan as far as volume is concerned. I try to plan a few days a week when I know I can spend at least an hour doing something. I usually get about 3 days of this on weekdays and then race on weekends during the season. I have no rule of thumb based on my race length because that can vary from 12 minutes to 30 hours.

My training volume goes to 11.

Volume should vary from week to week and so should intensity. The "15-20 hours" guys is often not the ones training hardest... I suggest varying the hours/intensity in f.ex. Low-mid-high weeks. You can plan these so it'll fit with work and other activitys.

f.ex. Some friends of mine can do under 15' at 5000m but doesnt run much more than 1 hour a day. But that includes at least 3 times intervals/sprints etc. My point is that the intervals are effective, but give less hours ofc.

Also... The biggest problem is not overtraining... It's injuries and sickness (cold). Stable training at 15h/week is tearing one apart. Varying weeks save one from that.

excuse my english, have mercy, im swedish

Var sa god. All are valkommen on Attackpoint!

as tynne said i find shorter quality work-outs better than 20km runs 7 days a week, because your 20km pace is genraly nowere near your race pace. that being said long trainings of 1hr+ shouldnt be forgotten

Depends on the race. My 20km runs are taken considerably faster than my competition Rogaining pace.

I think this all underscores the simple fact that it's very hard to evaluate a training plan without knowing what goals the plan is attempting to meet. The mix of volume and intensity are quite different for a miler versus, say, an adventure racer. The latter may put in twice the volume at significantly lower intensity.

That said, for all the Runner's World articles and anecdotal evidence promoting the "less is more" training plan, the fact remains that ALL elite athletes do a lot of volume. Of course, the fact that they can take it is a big part of what makes them elite. Not everybody is up to that and in the case of most amateurs such volume is simply not possible due to the other priorities of life. In such cases, it's wise to look for compromises that come as close as possible. As indicated in other comments on this thread, that is generally best achieved by finding one or two days a week when you can put some time in and using the remaining days for recovery or intensity. Also as mentioned, building up to some "big" weeks and then stepping it back every so often significantly reduces the chance of overuse problems.

>> No doubt that you better make some volume if you wanna become elite... But that volume consist of what? - I would say that, for ex. for 3000-15000m-runners, it's trainings that will increase your "lactate/anaerob threshold-point".. Since that is the limiting aspects of ones performance.. I will come to that further down...
(damn this is hard to explain/discuss right in english...)

Runners World is not for elite runners... But okey... it's quite good reading for amateurs..

These extra volume kilometers can easily be replaced by more efficient training methods... What they call "resistance exercices"... ( kinda explosive strength). Old Science is still working here. Russian professor Yuri Verkhoshansky and his Block Training System, is a good piece of reading for you interested guys, where this is explained more. Shortly described: This exercises, with a 50% of maxweight "jumping"-strenght", will cut down the KMs a lot! And still you will get a better effect in your capacity
, in many many ways. This research are the law! ;) hehe

Anyway.. i must add that lactate treshold, is for runners the most important and it's limited by (lets simplify) 3 things... (ability catch oxygen to blood, ability to transport it to muscles, and ability to make energy in muscles). These things you get from trainings like: long distances running, uniform prolonged running @threshold speed, "fartlek" , harder "vo2-intervals" etc. And if you take away one, you'll be limited by that weakness.. Keep it all in your programme. (I suggest to read Verkhoshansky once again).

I forgot to mention running-economy/technique. Of course thats one more, very important, limiting aspect in your performance.
Oh god I wish I could explain this in swedish Because I really messed up here =)

I think you did better than you give yourself credit for. I don't think our positions are that far apart. I believe, both from personal experience and from observing the training of many professional/semi-pro aerobic athletes that the best way to improve aerobic capacity is by putting threshold work on top of a REALLY BIG base. Only with a big base can your body stand up to the rigors of truly quality workouts.

That said, if one has to cut it back, then it makes sense to keep as much of the threshold work (in the form of intervals and tempo) as possible. My point is simply that if you try to run 4 or 5 threshold workouts a week with not much else, you're begging for an injury. Your body just doesn't have the resistance. You might be able to get away with something like that cycling or swimming (though cyclists and swimmers tend to do MORE volume than runners, not less), but with a weight bearing activity, you've got to have the base miles in the skeletal muscles to really give the cardio system the work it needs.

I'm sure counter-examples can be found, but I really doubt that many who spend more than 50% of their training at threshold would hold up too long. I've found that I do best when the mix is broken into roughly thirds (base/maintenance, endurance, quality). Therefore, if you want to get in 4 or 5 hours a week of quality stuff, you probably need to target at least 10-12 hours total. If you are OK with 2-3 hours, the total can come down, too, but you'll be running well below your potential.

After having a Nationally known running coach for 3-4 years before he fired me for being injured too much, I think training is as much art as it is science:)

Try to train more time each day than you spend on AP.

aight.. kinda same opinion about that ye... =) theres A LOT to discuss about this.. and with no face-to-face conversation it would take hooouuuurss.

A tip for you who think you got more to give in training, but not have the time... make everything more effective... f.ex. vo2-intervalls close up to 95% of HRmax. Training on empty stores of glycosomething (carbohydrate) ALWAYS get a better effect. And no recovery-meals directly after workouts, to keep the fatburning-process active... especially after such workouts=distance running. Also a lot to say about this.

Now i gotta get out and make my 16 hours week ( with 1 high intensity workout everyday...) ;)