Discussion: Goat Event Invitation (draft)

To the first, potentially annual, as yet to be named, SLOC goat event.

February 21st, 2009
Rockwoods Range 1:15000
Start time 9AM. Course closes at 3PM.

16ish K with a map exchange.

$15 pre-registration. Details to follow. In the meantime, please send me an email at w.langton (at) sbcglobal.net indicating interest.
$5 SI-card rental or use your own.

There will also be green, yellow, and orange courses available.
Registration for green, yellow and orange will open at 10 with start times beginning at 11.

If there's interest, a goat-let course could be made available (i.e. one of the two goat maps).

How about "Gateway Goat" for a name?

Sounds fun, would enjoy that but you put it right on top of CAOC's snowgaine. Was thinking we might get some SLOCers heading up to that race in Mississippi Palisades as the drive is shorter from St. Louis, I think.

Had wanted the 28th but couldn't make it work....

Oh hell, how did that happen? Sorry guys. We'll try to miss each other next year.

In addition to CAOC's Snowgaine, you also scheduled in conflict with The Birkebeiner long distance ski race in Cable, Wisconsin, which is February 21 this year, and February 27, 2010 and attracts over 7000 endurance athletes.

I don't remember seeing the Snowgaine on the schedule back in early/mid December when I put in final date pref's for reservations at the park. I did look and tried to pick a date with minimal collisions. Never heard of the Birkebeiner, so had no chance with that one.

I don't think we need to be scheduling around a XC ski race 400 miles away; even one as prestigious as the birkie.

Next year (or actually this year planning for next year) what if we trade schedules via e-mail w/ COAC and PTOC to make sure meets we hope will draw the neighboring clubs do not conflict? We could rough the big events out and then the clubs could work their local events around that?

Also, just a thought, what do people think of Cuivre River as a venue for the GG if it is going to be an annual event, since it is (nominally) easier for COAC and PTOC people to get to (and its big and good terrain)?

There's the small problem of the CR map being out of print.

Good idea Rudy. Charlie can speak to the specifics as he is responsible for our setting schedule. My thoughts are that low-key, 2 day B events are more likely to attract inter-club travel. I would make the trip for a single-day GG but few other CAOC folks would go for one day. We've seen similar attendance figures from SLOC at our past goat events.

This is an interesting conversation. I think a well established Goat event in St. Louis will draw a decent crowd.

The MNOC group that travels to Possum Trot really enjoys the two day event. We have also talked about--plenty of time in the car--working with other midwest clubs to establish some sort of series. Chicago, Badger, SLOC, PTOC, OKansas.

A couple events in the spring, a couple in the fall, each offering points towards a series championship. Maybe a couple goat events, individual start events and sprints or short courses at each. This would give people a reason to travel and possibly increase competition.

As far as the date is concerned--you'll never find a date that is ideal. When I saw it, I realized immediately that is was the Birkie weekend and that I would be in WI, but others might hope to find some warmer weather in MO in Feb.

Personally, I think a mid-late March date would draw more of us northerners, but I am sure there are closer populations that you are looking to attract. Just my opinion.

Yes it is too bad that the Gateway Goat and the Snowgaine are both he same day as is the Birkie. I have already signed up for the Birkie (annual event and $$). So i also believe the mid march time frame for 2 day events would be perfect.
CAOC does not finalize our schedule till early December.
A 3-day event last fall did not attract many outside the club participants.
I do agree that if a one day goat is held , to make it more attractive to outside club members, trying to have another event the next day would make me want to attend.
As far as a series goes...good luck.

a multi-day event crossed my mind but seemed overly ambitious given the late date.... good input for next year though.

If the Trot is to be our example, I'd be willing to put on a Carol's Team middle or sprint event the day before (similar to the OK/PTOC arrangement). That would keep SLOC resources free to put on a quality goat event.

Upon further reflection, instigated by Eric, I'm not going to allow the carryover of the skip from one map to the other, at least, not with a map exchange. The choice would be based on chance, not skill.

So, choices:
1) one skip per map, keep the map exchange.
2) hand out both maps at the start and keep the carryover rule.

Opinions welcome, even if not planning to attend....

Whats the difference between option 2 and just having one map w/ two skips, except that you have to place the skip on a certain half of the map?

Actually, from that perspective, thats true of option 1 also, isn't it?

What if there was just one skip, and you had just 60 seconds to look at both maps at the start, and in that time you had to decide whether you wanted the skip in the first or the second half?

There would be no commitment, except you wouldn't get to look at the second map again until the exchange. If you picked the 2nd half, you could still change your mind while running the first and take a skip if it felt right, based on your memory of what the second looked like, or vice versa

Or no skips? A goat event is defined as mass-start. Some goat events have skips, some do not.

Or change it every year? PTOC has changed a few times (including one skip each on a three-loop course)

What about an overall club trophy for these 2 or 3 annual midwest events?? The team element could be fun and would also raise the competition level as clubs would make an effort to recruit their members for these meets.
Keep the scoring simple and deep to reward participation.

No skips is definitely an option, but I designed this course with skips in mind.

For this meet, I want to allow skips and I want to keep the map exchange. So I guess it's going to be one skip per map..

details finalized. see event entry...

thanks to all who provided feedback!

If there is sufficient interest, Carol's Team will do something on Sunday morning, 2/22. I'd want at least 10 reasonably firm committments by 2/14. Contact me at ejbuckley@earthlink.net

Would that be an event at a venue nearby to the Goat, or somewhere else...

After 2 loops around Rockwoods I think we'll have seen enough of that map. I don't think too many folks would be interested in a middle or sprint at Greensfelder, so it will have to be somewhere else.

Rudy, is there a specific concern? Is there a reason to use a nearby venue?

You never know when information is going to be useful, someone might want to know whats in store for them. In my particular case, it revolves around planning my weekend, and getting to all the places in a timely fashion. You think a little differently when you don't just hop in a car and get somewhere without apparent effort.