in: Shep; Shep > 2006-05-28;
| # Posted 2006-05-29 06:28:45 | |
| Grant: | Sounds like you had a good day mate!
David Baker is a renowned email terrorist, he’s cute and cuddly when he isn’t behind a keyboard. |
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| # Posted 2006-05-29 06:45:47 | |
| Shep: | yeah he sounds like a real teddy bear! |
| # Posted 2006-05-29 07:23:11 | |
| acejase: | he's a top bloke.
cracker day shep. NOTE: my comment ammended to protect against libel after Feet's advice. |
| # Posted 2006-05-29 07:39:21 | |
| TommyQ: | I'm with Baker. Out with all Crossovers, they're a menace! How's today going Shep, anything gone wrong yet? Signed up to organise any future orienteering events yet? |
| # Posted 2006-05-29 09:13:41 | |
| Shep: | today, my bike was there when i went to ride into uni, the coffee has been good and i had an amusing email from dawayne bagare so i've got nothing to complain about so far...
i'm organiser, controller and course planner for oceania 2007. gonna be a cracker. send your entries in now. |
| # Posted 2006-05-29 11:55:04 | |
| robw: | Jeez what a debacle, that red laser is jinxed - i'd get rid of it before it causes anymore frustration.
Always nice to get some helpful advice about your courses though, i never realised crosovers where so bad, i'll have to change all my courses for the 3+3 in salen now. |
| # Posted 2006-05-29 12:12:52 | |
| glenn: | Did the 4WD stop? Got his insurance?
I've never heard such unnecessary criticism of a course-setter! Are you sure you're talking about the same sport of orienteering that I do? |
| # Posted 2006-05-29 12:35:42 | |
| Shep: | yeah he stopped. unfortunately i dont think it was 100% his fault - narrow road, blind corner - just an accident. skid marks on the road showed he was on my side but the road really wasnt much wider than his 8 tonne navara!
yeah cross-overs/loops etc are bad. delete your courses Rob, place a Ford logo in the ocad file as a template and draw your course around the perfect blue oval. what a cracker that would be. good work mr bagare for bringing us into the new age of orienteering! |
| # Posted 2006-05-29 14:06:48 | |
| TheInvisibleLog: | All course complaints should be on an official form. The form must be signed. And the sentence above the signature must be "I hereby volunteer to oganise the next event, and will galdly accept all criticism".
Failing that, bin it. |
| # Posted 2006-05-29 16:22:52 | |
| hoggster: | Yeah, the funny thing is that d.baker was down to set the act champs, but pulled the pin. Phew, that was a close one... |
| # Posted 2006-05-29 16:26:49 | |
| candyman: | Can you post your reply up here as well? |
| # Posted 2006-05-30 04:45:50 | |
| Shep: | of course...
|
| # Posted 2006-05-30 04:46:09 | |
| Shep: | Dawayne, i'm writing to you personally (as the course planner), NOT as a member of the board. I apologise for (my) error with the sportident - the failure was completely my fault. but i must defend myself on some of your other "grievances"... for starters, your control descriptions were there (unless someone too far too many for themself), M35-44AS runs course 6 along with M16A,M17-20AS, M55A and W45A, you just needed to open your eyes and
have a look. sorry if you or hugh couldnt find your map - i am looking at one right now. i can clearly see M35-44As in the top line of the descriptions. and the descriptions you should have taken from the start clearly showed drinks controls. "My control 7 (M45A-54AS - I had entered in M35-44AS) was 30m misplaced. It was at the head of the gully and not in the middle as marked. I stopped to check this out - controller failure again." i'll argue with this. and i think i will win. i put the tape there myself. who are you anyway? "My course had a completely unnecessary cross over in it and given no sport-ident meant that controls could be taken out of order." where to start with this one. unnecessary cross over? what is a "necessary" cross over then? what are you talking about? cross overs, loops etc are a part of orienteering. a cross over isnt "necessary", just as a long leg or a short leg aren't "necessary", they are just part of a good course. if you cant handle it then i suggest running a blue or green standard course. "In general [and regardless whether Sportident is in use or not] on areas as large as Ballindad, crossover legs unnecessarily introduce luck and enable an orienteer to go over ground they've already seen. Crossovers should be avoided and only used if it is absolutely necessary if the geography of the map is constrained. In Ballinfad's case, there is no need for the use of crossovers on a course that was less than 5km long. This was another Controller failure to ensure courses were an appropriate standard for the area." this is completely wrong. see above comments. at this stage i will also suggest you look at some course-setting guidelines (plenty have been written), and possibly looking at some orienteering maps with courses on them. i have plenty i can show you, from state leagues to national leagues, national championships to world championships and world cups. but since you obviously have not ever read course-setting guidlines nor ran an orienteering race i think it best you stop complaining about the courses and learn how to orienteer. "10. My course had 5 doglegs on it - increasing the amount of find-thru-chance opportunities that good course setting is supposed to avoid - I was led into 3 of the 5 from people exiting. Controller again; although I would have hoped on such an event that the course setter could have known better as well." no it didnt. if you think it did then you ran the wrong way. see above suggestion - try blue or green courses (they're a bit easier). "11. My course was orange standard. All except one had either catching features at or just beyond or handrails to the control. It was supposed to be red. Controller again." was it now? so it was too easy for you? i dont believe that for a second. you obviously are not a competent orienteer, as is apparent from your comments... look at the map again, its australian spur gully. of course there are handrails! they're spurs and gullys! "12. The finish was in a usual position from events that I have competed there in the [distant] past." and? did you want the finish further in so you could complain about the extra driving? or getting bogged? or the rough road? anyway, i apologise for your "grievance" 2. my mistake. shep |
| # Posted 2006-05-30 04:50:14 | |
| Shep: | and Dawayne Bagare's reply to my reply...
So is this what passes these days as a standard response to criticism by members of the Orienteering Board does it - slander and libel? It doesn't auger well for the future stewardship of Orienteering when our decision makers have to resort to insults and defamation instead of addressing issues critically (see Mr Sheppard's response attached). Given these extended circumstances, I now demand a full refund for both Stephen and myself (since I paid for both). My issues with yesterday were factual and defendable. Regardless of what take people make, nobody deserves the sort of response issued up by Mr Sheppard. I am surprised at what you have written below. It would make a good annex to an official complaint; just for your information I am a fully accredited Level 2 controller and well within my skills and experience (some 27 years) to make critical judgement on events to a State championship standard. I surprised and deeply saddened that a Board member has to resort to personal insults rather than address criticism rationally. This reflects very poorly on you and the Board; I suggest you ought to consider your future as Director because from my perspective you have no right being one. You can count yourself lucky you did not broadcast this to a wider audience; it was the only wise thing you did after hitting the reply button. Regards Dawayne |
| # Posted 2006-05-30 04:51:23 | |
| Shep: | cant argue with 27 years of experience!
i am lucky i didnt broadcast this to a wider audience, might have made a fool out of my mate mr bagare. |
| # Posted 2006-05-30 05:00:17 | |
| mjd: | what would he do if it were red! can you post this offending course up somewhere so we can all learn from your mistakes. classic! lol |
| # Posted 2006-05-30 05:10:46 | |
| feet: | Awesome stuff, if maybe a little on the tactless side to the paying public who'd already provided you with a bonus entertaining email.
If you only emailed him personally, of course, it wasn't slander or libel at that point. It may become libel when you post it publicly on Attackpoint... :) |
| # Posted 2006-05-30 05:20:42 | |
| candyman: | hmm, I better not put forward an opinion lest it reflect poorly on the OA Board.... |
| # Posted 2006-05-30 05:33:43 | |
| feet: | Posted on Shep's behalf:
 |
| # Posted 2006-05-30 05:35:09 | |
| glenn: |
Absolute classic, I heard theres a subpoena coming your way to attend the courtroom of Judge Judy next week. |
| # Posted 2006-05-30 06:58:21 | |
| AJ: | Wow, look at all those nasty doglegs. And that crossover, absolutely shocking! |
| # Posted 2006-05-30 09:03:49 | |
| cedarcreek: | Let me get this straight: He's complaining that the course design requires SportIdent with the full knowledge that you just had problems with the SportIdent? And even had SI controls in the woods? |
| # Posted 2006-05-30 10:04:37 | |
| Disco: | It looks a lot better than some of the state league courses I've run down here in Victoria over the last couple of years.
By the way Shep, you must have been trying hard to fit those five doglegs in with only nine controls. |
| # Posted 2006-05-30 11:22:51 | |
| Runodk: | Holey Moses!
Holley Moses! Dog legs what the F&$# is he talking about I only saw a few roos not to mention the Cows (still disappointed that they didn’t care about you running with the red tape) anyway no dogs at all! Control 7 was spot on! I checked it my self >;-) the now confident Spur gully rider. By the way, drinks controls always sounds way to good…always searching for the drinks, but get disappointed when I only can spot the water. Full throttle that’s the spirit of Gully spur, not sure this guy got it! |
| # Posted 2006-05-30 12:18:39 | |
| Fly'n: | At least he didn't complain about the scale like old codgers over here...... and you have used the wrong symbol for tree.
where the f&*k does he thing doglegs were?? |
| # Posted 2006-05-30 12:48:17 | |
| fell: | this does not bode well for an upcoming victorian state league.
Mr. Baker stay north. "The vegetation varies from pine and gum plantations, to Jurassic rainforest..." |
| # Posted 2006-05-30 12:49:17 | |
| Toph: | yeah i think this is quite funny, but ridiculous. the course is fine if he said 5 lead him to 3 he obviously was off track but even if it was control 6 that led him in, he is still a couple of hundred metres away and would have been smart to use the control. i can't remember clearly the last time that i had a major race( state, national event ) that i didnt have at least one cross over, they add to the fun. spur gully you cant do much with it, come to some events down hear and you will find that out.
its all a load of rubbish, but its entertaining from my persepective. |
| # Posted 2006-05-30 13:47:25 | |
| David Baker: | RIGHT THATS IT YOU'RE ALL IN TROUBLE
I also thought the toilet paper in the toilets at the event wasnt good enough. It was far too soft and absorbant. I like the thin, scratchy stuff. Also the orange on the flags wasnt orange enough. Given I have 27 years of experience and I am a Level 2 controller, my complaints surprise even myself. |
| # Posted 2006-05-30 16:14:41 | |
| lazydave: | I havent been on AP for a while and i see this, jeez i'm worried for the runners of JWOC 2007 if they'll have to put up with cross overs and the like |
| # Posted 2006-05-30 16:40:51 | |
| ev: | he better not get his entry fee refunded. what is it about our sport that attracts people of his calibre? |
| # Posted 2006-05-31 06:54:36 | |
| Shep: | "David,
A penny's worth of advice. Write a full and unreserved apology to me for your inconsiderate and rude remarks, and nothing will follow. Reply as you have to date and I will take this further. It's your call. Dawayne Bagare." |
| # Posted 2006-05-31 08:27:26 | |
| Fat Rat: | What's your next move?
Since your on the Orienteering ACT board - whats higher? Oh! You don't want the OA board to find out!!! |
| # Posted 2006-05-31 08:30:17 | |
| Troy: | I love this shit =) |
| # Posted 2006-05-31 08:41:10 | |
| AJ: | Cue dramatic music ...
|
| # Posted 2006-05-31 08:42:32 | |
| AJ: | I hope he's not threatening u shep.
Do u know where he lives? A buring turd on his doorstep wouldn't go astray right now. |
| # Posted 2006-05-31 09:14:26 | |
| Shep: | ha ha good one AJ! he called it poop!
i just wished him luck ;) |
| # Posted 2006-05-31 09:16:01 | |
| Shep: | i just noticed acejase edited his comment... i dont think thats legal. |
| # Posted 2006-05-31 11:18:27 | |
| walders: | just thought i'd weigh in with my 2 cents (cos this is such a fun subject). what a joker!!!!!!! can't wait to see him take this further, surely no one will support his claim for a refund...maybe OACT should offer him a complimentary membership to an NT orienteering club?
keep us up to speed shep |
| # Posted 2006-05-31 11:38:22 | |
| Fat Rat: | for being able to share in this...
thank you Attackpoint! thank you |
| # Posted 2006-05-31 12:40:18 | |
| fish: | shep, sounds like great fun.
Everything i've heard, in general, about david baker makes him sound like a complete arsehole ... but of course that's just hearsay and maybe he's a top bloke ... Interesting to see he said "My issues with yesterday were factual and defendable. " I think that most here seem to argue that looking at the map, many of the statements are neither factual nor defendable ... ah well, have fun with it all ... |
| # Posted 2006-05-31 14:25:51 | |
| NSW Stinger: | I told you it was gold Fatrat! keep up the good work shep |
| # Posted 2006-05-31 15:33:44 | |
| glenn: | Told you Judge Judy was coming! Or maybe hes just gonna kneecap ya.
My advice is to just keep baiting him. I am addicted to this thread now, if it stops I will become productive again. As stinger said, keep up the good work. |
| # Posted 2006-05-31 17:10:19 | |
| ev: | yeah im with glenn, this cat fight is my new life and i dont want my old life back |
| # Posted 2006-05-31 21:07:59 | |
| disorienteer: | Hell, I'm addicted, and I don't know any of you, and I live in Texas! Keep it coming! :-) |
| # Posted 2006-06-01 04:28:23 | |
| Shep: | only a few more comments to get the half ton!
hunfortunately i might have to severely edit this thread to avoid dawayne bagare throwing this into the mix with the OACT board... i havent yet heard anything about "taking this further", ie mr president george bush. in australia george is a euphemism for eating, eg "i'm gonna george them chips". so george bush means "to eat the bush". |
| # Posted 2006-06-01 04:42:15 | |
| feet: | Yeah, right.
I'm hoping Google indexes this page fairly soon. Sometimes Attackpoint can be remarkably high up the rankings - eg the number 4 hit for "VJ Sarva" as of right now is the log on Attackpoint of one 'Shep'. But searching for 'Ballinafad' still doesn't bring up this discussion... |
| # Posted 2006-06-01 05:06:32 | |
| Sergey: | I counted 9 wrongly placed controls with 10 dog legs! |
| # Posted 2006-06-01 05:07:26 | |
| Sergey: | And #3 is way too close to the edge of the map! |
| # Posted 2006-06-01 07:58:35 | |
| Wyatt: | 52 comments so I had to look. Glad I did as I haven't laughed this hard in months... It's hard to believe this Dawayne Bagare (David Baker??) character is real. |
| # Posted 2006-06-01 10:16:24 | |
| cedarcreek: | David: You should log your last week or two of training on attackpoint. I'm sure we'd all love to look at it... |
| # Posted 2006-06-01 13:44:54 | |
| hoggster: | Hey feet, your mum told me you have a real job now -- how do you have all this time to keep pulling out such google trivia?? And how many words did you have to try before you got a hit on Shepp?? |
| # Posted 2006-06-01 16:45:16 | |
| feet: | One. And the real job hain't started yet. :) |
| # Posted 2006-06-01 18:01:25 | |
| wilsmith: | I'm soooo glad you Aussies have discovered Attackpoint - this is way too good to be missed. Please, please let us know how it all turns out - this epic adventure is truly one of the funniest (and saddest, if I really think about it) threads I've ever seen here. |
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