Discussion: Garmin Forerunner: 305 or 405?

So my brithday and christmas are coming up so hoping that my parents will put money towards me getting a garmin to help me train. The only problem is i'm having a hard time getting a good comparison of the 305 model and the 405 model.
I want it to be able to over lay my routes on o-ing courses and use quick route. Plus have a heart rate monitor. and have it beep or something if i'm running too slow or to fast to work on the right pacing. Also when i move away to college for me to be able to use it to figure out distances since i will no longer know the routes. I'm hoping to be in Edinburgh, or maybe CA for college.
Also i haven't gotten a laptop for college yet but it most likely will be a Mac.
Any advice woule be great! Thanks

Gmaps pedometer is an excellent tool for measuring routes, at least along streets and linear features. It should suffice for measuring running routes in cities. The Garmin is certainly useful for everything else you mentioned, trail runs, and orienteering distance.

The 405 is certainly more stylish, but I rather like the big clunky display on the 305. Much easier to read quickly on the run. That may not be an issue with younger eyes (although my vision isn't terrible - I still orienteer on 1:10 without glasses).

go for the 310xt, much smaller than the 305 and fits smaller wrists than the 405.

I think the 305 will do everything you want, and is a lot less expensive with the amazon deal.

Agreed, the 305 and 405 both do everything you want, and the 305 is much cheaper. I like the smaller size of the 405, but neither of them are exactly stylish, especially on a woman's smaller wrist. (I have a very small wrist and both watches "fit" on my wrist.)

I find the wireless transfer feature of the 405 to be a bit of a pain, and the bezel-based navigation is also a bit touch-and-go. In other words, aside from the size, the 405 doesn't win in a side-by-side comparison. I have a 405 (my 305 was stolen) but just bought two 305s for family members.

I have a 405 and love it but I would recommend the 305 on its current price alone. Your parents should be able to pay the whole shot on that one.
But if you are considering going to Edinburgh -that's in Scotland, isn't it? - then you should consider getting the new Garmin 310 XT. It is waterproof to 30 metres depth so should stand up to Scottish weather.

Thank you all for your advice!!! VERY helpful!!!!

looks like the 305 is winning here but Gord i'll have a look into the 310 XT, since yes Edinburgh Scotland = a lot of rain!

305 can record one point per second. 405 and 310XT has only "smart" recording (about one point per 4 seconds). If someone likes to do for example analysis like this properly, point per sec recording is needed to get all stops etc recorded properly. In this perspective 305 would be better choice.

Based on the Garmin website and the discussions here I haven't found any real reason for the 305 to be so much cheaper than the 405. Does anyone have an explanation for this?

The only reason I can think of for the 305 to be so much less expensive than the 405 would be that they are not making them any more and they want to clear their stock and eventually stop supporting that model.
WRT 1 sec vs 4 sec: with the amount of arm pumping I do when I'm running one reading every 4 sec seems to be a good idea.

... Ahem ...
Edinburgh has lower average rainfall than Philadelphia or Ottawa. Look it up!

Just got a 405 last week, I used it twice and like it, but can't give you a comparison.

305 is fine in the rain - just don't immerse it completely. 405 has bezel problems in the rain.

Regarding the pricing - I'm reasonably certain that Amazon made a special "deal" for the Black Friday weekend. (a semi-loss leader if you will)

Other sites had prices much higher, and Amazon itself showed the price as 53% off. I would not expect it to last past the weekend...

Haha Graeme maybe, but you guys get rain more often. We get big dumps of rain normally. However point taken.

The price on Amazon has been quite low for the past month actually. I have been tracking it. However yes i'm sure the price won't stay that low for much longer. This is why i was wondering what people thought so that i can just go ahead and pick a model.

Sounds like the 305 is winning, however have a chance to test out the 405. So we will see. Thank you all for the help!!!!

Acampbell, I have the 310xt and love it. It can also pair with the cadence sensors on my bikes. I too have heard that the 405 has issues with the bezzel when wet and you can't use it whilst wearing gloves either and i think the battery life is better on the 310xt too.
I have a Mac Book Pro and use the Garmin connect software which is quite good you can export the data to KML and TCX files Hope this helps?

Two Dots - Thanks i was wondering if the Garmin software would work on a Mac. Glad to hear it does!!! Do you have to have anything special on it to work? Or just the software they give you?

All the compatibility info is available on the Garmin webpage... Looks like you need an Intel Mac, but that's it. (I.e. any Mac bought in the last 5 years or so... has it really been that long? it seems like just yesterday...)

Re the waterproofness of the 305 - mine sprang a leak (I also live in Scotland!) and took a week to dry out. It still works, but I'm left with a small sticky puddle residue on the reverse side of the screen. It has done the same twice more, so until I can come up some Heath Robinson cover for it, I'll have to refrain from subjecting it to the worst of our Scottish deluges (it's OK in showers). I also prefer the larger form factor of the 305 vs the 405, but it does mean that you can't just pull your sleeve over it as a weather shield.

I've heard that the 405 can have probs in the rain because the rain can trigger the touch-sensitive bezel, but you can turn that off. Lots of related info on the SportTracks forum pages.

The Amazon deal is no doubt because the 310/410 series are seen as the emperor's new clothes, and the 305 is old hat - but (apart from the water ingress) I'd have no qualms about snapping up the 305.

Hey Acampbell,
My Mac is approx 9 months old and I didn't have to do anything at all to it or my 310xt Just load the Garmin Connect Software available from the Garmin WS.... Definately go for the 310xt for the Waterproofness!! :-) and although their a little big it will fit on small wrists.

well, I ran with my 305 a lot in rain in the past years, it worked fine.

Also I always pull my sleeves over it, thats no big problem, the size never bothered me.

I'd also choose the 305 again. Althogh 310 has a longer battery life (20 hours instead of 10), but I never had problems with it, they lasted every one-day-hike up until now, even in winter conditions.

as of this morning (Monday, Nov. 30) the Garmin 305 w/HR monitor is still priced at $139.99 with free shipping on Amazon

Also available at Best Buy for $139.99 (don't know about free shipping, but you could go into one of their stores...) this week.

yeah, it looks like Best Buy gives free shipping also, but you pay sales tax at Best Buy and none at Amazon (at least here in AZ)

Hmmm seams like 305 is the one to go for. And that means that a proposal to the club to get a few for the club is going in as well.
Thank you everyone for all the advice!!!!

@jingo6390: you left off 'assuming you are a tax cheat like most people.'

Amazon only charges taxes in states it's legally required to do so (see 1992 Supreme Court case Quill v. North Dakota), and Amazon does not charge taxes in AZ... nor in most western states, but the controversy in AZ is beginning to brew

I take back the insinuation regarding you - checking on the AZ DOR site, it looks like you are within the law. I guess there are four types of states as far as sales taxes go for Amazon

1) KS, KY, ND, NY, WA, where Amazon charges sales tax either because it has a physical location in the state or because (NY) the state has forced it to do so on the argument that being linked to by Amazon Affiliates in NY is enough nexus.
2) other states where the sales tax is not collected by Amazon, but where the buyer is still supposed to pay it (Connecticut, for example - you pay it as 'use tax' with your income tax return)
3) states like Arizona where the sales tax is not collected by Amazon and nobody has to pay it
4) states with no sales tax

I had thought case 3) didn't exist and that everyone who thought 'Amazon is cheaper because they don't charge sales tax' was a scofflaw. Actually it looks like in Arizona this isn't true. So, sorry for the (implicit) accusation. I get really pissed off with this in states like CT or MA where people just dodge the tax. It's plain dishonest. In AZ it looks like the issue is a badly designed tax system.

http://taxvox.taxpolicycenter.org/blog/_archives/2...

At least you lead by example and can remain cloaked in propriety.

NJ also expects its citizens to pay 7% use/sales tax (filed with state income tax returns) on items bought out-of-state or online. It is net of sales taxes paid to other jurisdictions, though.

When I lived (and filed taxes) in MA I had no idea that I was supposed to pay taxes on online/out of state purchases. Not only does that sound like a major pita, I'm not sure very many other people know, either. Guess I'm safe in AZ for the time being.

It's hard to avoid now: it's on the income tax form. Your return is officially invalid in many states if you leave the line blank (though not if you fill in zero).

It's not just online purchases, it's also (in MA) purchases from driving over the state line to NH (no sales tax) that you are supposed to pay use tax on. It has been an issue there since way before the internet.

And yes, it's a slight nuisance (all you have to do at year-end is go back through your credit card online statement; it's not that hard) which is why I now shop at Amazon more than I used to, since they do actually charge the tax for me in NY, stopping me from having to keep track of it.

I'm no "tea-partier" (far from it), but a state expecting its citizens to declare and pay taxes for out-of-state purchases, IMO, is outrageous.

Online purchases delivered into one's state are another matter, but it should be the retailer's responsibility to collect the tax.

the retail booksellers here in AZ are putting pressure on the AZ DOR to levy the "Amazon tax", that would only be fair..."scofflaw", learned a new word, thanks feet.... and you are right, the statement I made was a bit "scufflawy"

clarification- American Booksellers Association requested that the Arizona DOR levy the "Amazon tax"... I should have known what a "scofflaw" was, it was the title of the 99th Seinfeld episode

If you filed MA taxes and earned <$25,000, you wouldn't have paid the use tax anyway, unless you really wanted to. Even if you earn >$25,000, you can buy however much stuff you want and just pay an income-based tax, even if that's less than the itemized tax should be. I'll leave it to feet to decide whether that would be scofflawing it or not.

If you filed MA taxes and earned <$25,000

Sweet, being an underpaid teacher finally pays off!

If you filed MA taxes and earned <$25,000, you wouldn't have paid the use tax anyway, unless you really wanted to. Even if you earn >$25,000, you can buy however much stuff you want and just pay an income-based tax, even if that's less than the itemized tax should be. I'll leave it to feet to decide whether that would be scofflawing it or not.

Close, but not quite right.

If you don't want to keep track of all your purchases subject to the use tax, there is a so-called "safe harbor" provision by which you calculate your use tax based on your income instead of on your untaxed purchases. Doing it this way is perfectly legal. And as Brendan says, if your income is less than 25K, the calculated amount is $0.

However, the safe harbor provision only covers purchases that were less than $1,000 individually. So legally you owe the use tax on any purchases of 1K or more, plus the safe harbor calculated amount.

Having said that, I'm not aware of anyone (other than Feet maybe?) who actually pays the use tax.

I paid $15 last year.

Having said that, I'm not aware of anyone (other than Feet maybe?) who actually pays the use tax.

Those who consider being presidents, senators, governors or other high profile, definitely should pay...otherwise it will become known when they expect it less... Others could live in blessed innocence until feet spoiled it... it is too late now.

305, 405 and 310 XT are rated to IPX7 (ingress protection) so theoretically they can be immersed in water at a depth of 1m for 30m and should not leak...but thats straight out of the box, prior to being bumped or dropped etc....and opened! but thats a given anyway.

Yeah, I've never had a problem with my 405 that was water-related in the 1.5 years (almost) that I've had it... I ignore weather when taking it out now.

I have the 305 and it is very good in the wet weather, I have even worn it swimming, altough it is not recommended.

do either of them work on a plane?

As long as you´re below the satellites ;)

...but - no I don´t think so, my guess is that the hull of the plane would block out the signals. I´ve never tried though...

I did try to turn on my old, much less sensitive garmin legend while sitting beside the window and was able to track flight easily. So I bet new generation will pick up signal without any problems too, at least if you are close to the window.

I have some experience with using a GPS on a plane (not a Forerunner, but a Garmin hand-held model). I find that if I'm in a window seat, and if I hold the GPS right up to the window, I can get reception. It's actually kind of neat, since it (of course) tells things like the elevation, the speed, the present location, etc.

Haven't tried with my Forerunner; I would guess if anything it would have somewhat better reception than the hand-held model, so maybe it wouldn't be necessary to have the device right up against a window.

And FYI the 305 is backordered on Amazon ... no delivery date estimate. Sob. :)

Does the 305 work if using it outside the United States?

My 305 works here in Germany.

It works all the way over here in Australia too. Something to do with the 'Global' in 'Global Positioning System' :)

Incidenally, it's back in stock on Amazon for $156.