Discussion: Cycling (to a park)

I'm still growing in both technique and running ability, and am wondering...

My running for the last month or so has been on roads / sidewalks near my house. I'd like to get onto some trails and have nearby parks that would work well. However, they are just beyond where I'd like to be going distance wise (between getting there, running trails, and returning).

I have developed a nice "habit" of getting up early in the morning and heading out for my run before showering and getting active in the day. I can't see myself getting in the car to drive there and back. (It may be doable, it just seems "wrong" to me;-)

My son has suggested I ride a bike instead - and this has promise. It is a little more of a workout for me, but not as strenuous as running. I can also use it as a warmup / warmdown for the trail activity. But I think it uses muscles "differently" than running...

So - Id like to toss this out and ask for opinions and comments from others that may have already been down this trail...-)

ccsteve, reading between the lines, I'm assuming you're asking for advice related to training for orienteering specifically- ie if biking has it's uses. Absolutely. If only because it would help increase your cardiovascular without the load-bearing strain normally associated with running. They are a good fit with one another and I'm sure others can comment on specifics. The only limitation is maybe on time. If you only have 30min to train and 20 minutes is biking. Then the 10min running may not allow you to improve well in your foot speed (for orienteering).

Of note, you will have to be confident in securing your bike while you run:-).

Also, kudos to you for not driving to your training. I have the same concerns and try my best. Though I'm limited with paddling to using my vehicle to shuttle the boat.

I do this quite a bit - for meets as well as training. I'm training primarily for Adventure Racing, so the cycling has obvious training value. I also take the opportunity to practice changing shoes/clothes quickly.

As for securing your bike (and pack, if you choose not to run with it). I think the simplest thing is just to carry your bike into the woods a bit and lock it to a tree with a simple cable lock. Not much chance of a bike thief stumbling across your bike in the forest. Of course, make sure you note the location on the map so you can find it yourself!

One warning I always give when combining running and cycling: use low gears. Crunching a big gear, particularly on the return trip when your ligaments and tendons are already hot from running is begging for knee trouble. Spinning is a better workout anyway.

Really interesting post. I'm sure that biking does develop muscles that are no use for running and are therefore extra baggage running up hills, however I think this would only be a problem is you did an extreme amount of biking.

I use a bike instead of a car for commuting and feel that the extra cardiovascular exercise is extremely valuable, and easily outwieighs any extra muscle development. The point is that the biking should be in addition to your running is important. If the choice is run or bike, I say run, but if you can get extra some extra hours in on the bike, that should be beneficial.

Thanks for the point about knee ligaments, Eric. My knee has been sore for a couple of weeks, and I think that it might be something to do with that.

I'm sure someone else can provide something more detailed, but I do believe that cycling and *uphill* running use a very similar set of muscles. So, additional muscle mass gained from cycling may be more beneficial to running than not. Probably much less true for a road or track runner, but an orienteer can benefit greatly from having a good set of up muscles.

At least, aside from the "fun" aspect, this is what I tell myself to justify riding. After all, Lance would uphill run as cross-training for cycling, so why not the other way around? (Some Texans are worth something after all...)

Absolutely - cycling is excellent training for both uphill and downhill running. Both rely heavily on the quads. Relative to other runners of my ability, I'm much better on hills. Some of this is from the amount of hill training I do for orienteering and adventure racing, but this was true back when cycling was my only sport as well.

Cycling is certainly not detrimental in any way, and is a fine way to get to the woods and back, definitely better than driving, as long as it's not so far away as to be impractical. If the riding is being used largely as transportaion instead of being the focus of the training, there's another consideration in terms of securing the bike: get a $15 bike at a yard sale that isn't worth stealing anyway, and either lock it in some ordinary place or just drag it into the bushes. And if it has toeclips instead of clipless pedals, then you don't have to deal with changing shoes. (I've got five bikes in my garage for different purposes, and should have two more soon (antiques). (Okay, technically one of my bikes is a unicycle -- close enough.)

Hm, never thought to count my unicycle as a bicycle. The whole "uni" vs "bi" thing always threw me off. ;-)

4.5 bikes, then.

"Look, there's a cyclops!"
"That's not a cyclops, it's got two eyes!"
"Must be a bicyclops."

I found that when I was consitent about doing both cycling and running that I got in great shape. The combination may be hard to get right. The cycling did help with running hills and if I trained with intervals on bike or rode fairly fast, it translated to running faster with less effort. However, cycling exclusively did seem to make me less prepared for runs over 50 minutes.

I used to ride bike a lot as teenager till I noticed that after longer rides my running stride would tend to be shorter then usual, rarely rode bike ever since, never cross trained on bike since. However I strived in hilly terrains. You got to be lean to fly through hills. My biggest problem with hills today is my weight. Now - almost 20 years and 30+ pounds later I don't have much love for steep hills...

Regarding bike-riding - tip I got from my co-worker was - it's all about spinning. You got to be able to do at least 70-80 RPM regardless if you are going up hill or on flat. Most amateur bikers tend to grind with law RPMs in high gears. Low RPMs will cause build-up of lactic acid in your muscles.

Speaking of which I changed my approach running up-hills since - I use shorter strides and more frequent strides going up-hill then I used to.

Most serious cyclists would regard 70 RPM as grinding; 80 is the lower end of "normal". Spinning is more like 110-120. 140 is about the top end of practical use, but the world record is over 230 (I had the pleasure of watching this one get set - it was impressive to say the least).

In my experience biking, swimming and cross-country skiing are great cross-training exercises for orienteering. There's also Catching Features of course.

I'm sure biking is good training as long as a lot of running is also done. Over the summer I typically do very little running, a lot of biking, and I am in a lot of pain on my first orienteering run.

Thanks for the comments - I hadn't thought the responses would cover so many different aspects!-)

By the way, there's another reason to spin on a bike. 90 rpm is about the same as what most people prefer for a good running stride rate (on the road). So sitting on a bike with a light spin rate gets you feeling the same rhythm as a run with quick leg turnover.

Does anyone know if you can get a bike computer (or something else) that tells you yout rpm while your biking?

Jon,

Yes there are a number of cadence bike computers on the market. I'm going to assume you can just look at REI or MEC websites and find such a beast.

Just to confirm, you want to monitor the number of times your cranks go around vs. the wheel when looking at cadence (for obvious reasons).

Yep, you just need to get a cyclocomputer with a cadence counter - a magnet that attaches to one of your crank arms. Alternatively, one could use a metronome with a mini jack. ;-)

A cheaper option is to go out for a ride and count the number of times one pedal goes around in a minute and get ag eneral feel for the different cadences. For most of us that would be accurate enough.

Also, for most of us exercise of any sort is better than driving a car. For elite athletes percentage of specific traing is essential, but any endurance activity will help--not hurt--citizent athletes' performance.

I always wondered what Cadence meant!

Just as a general note, the price of bike computers has come way down over the past couple of years and what was not too long ago thought of as a fancy gadget for the hard-core crowd can be of great use for everyone. Of course, the more options you want (like cadence and wireless) the more you pay.

And, with something like getting your base cadence up, I found that a few weeks with a cadence counter was enough. After that I pretty much ignored it - I knew what ~90-110 felt like.

I missed to mention in my previous post that seems like I am not the only one who resist driving 10 miles one way to run for about 3 miles and drive back another 10 miles - in another words - putting more miles into driving then running. That's seems wrong to me. Most of my runs start and end at my house. I do allow few exceptions:
- when running with a group - I used to be 'lone wolf' for many years till co-worker of mine connected me with running group.
- when I start and end running from the gym I belong to - it gives me option to dip into whirlpool and sauna after the runs;
- o-training with map;
- race (running or orienteering).

Since I am more 'citizen' runner now then elite athlete I have allowed incorporating stationary bike in my training routines. But I have to say that it is easier to "bike" then run. I have no problem watching entire Detroit Piston's game while spinning vs. running on treadmill. So if you have limited training time and your main goal is to improve running – I’d stick with running, period.

I don't think I ever considered myself an "elite" cyclist, but the IRS seemed to think I was professional enough to take a cut of my winnings.

A few thoughts on cycling and orienteering:

If your training is limited by available time, you need to focus on specificity. That is, don't waste time cross-training if it's going to cost you a run in the woods.

As your training increases to where it is limited by physical capacity rather than how much time you can devote, cross training becomes increasingly valuable. You can do a LOT more training on the bike than you can running. Your cardiovascular system can easily handle 30-40 hours of training a week, but even the top runners max out at around 12-15 hours a week of training because the skeletal structures can't take any more than that. Good amateur cyclists train 15-20 hours a week and pros are more in the 30-35 hour range.

While certainly not as valuable as navigating in the forest, you can practice navigation on the bike. I ride with a USGS map from time to time and try to check off features as I go. While the map is a good deal rougher than an O map, the fact that you are traveling through it much faster requires some concentration to follow along. Of course, this drill is a lot more beneficial if you are on unfamiliar roads.

On the cadence subject, the only way you'll get out of the 90-100 RPM range and comfortably into "real" spinning is to do low gear work. This is best done on a fixed-gear bike because then you can't cheat and coast, but with discipline you can do it on any bike. Pick a suitably low gear (I use a 39x17, but you might want to go even lower) and do the entire ride without shifting or coasting. On the downhills this will be very hard - impossible at first. Keep at it and after a while you'll feel your pedal stroke smooth out and you'll have a lot less upper body movement. Then one day, your body will "get it". What really happens is that your neural pathways get sufficiently coordinated that the muscle can fire much quicker. Theory aside, it will hit you all at once and you'll be able to spin quite comfortably at 140-160 with sprints of around 200. It takes about 3000 miles of concerted low gear work to get to this point, but it's quite a rush when it happens and you'll never pedal a bike the same way after it does. Another upside of this type of workout is that while you'll experience heart rate spikes very near your max, your legs will be completely fresh the next day.

I ride with a USGS map from time to time and try to check off features as I go.

If you decide to try this, I suggest that you get a really good helmet.

I wouldn't ride a bike 10 feet under any circumstances without a really good helmet. But the point is well taken - don't try this unless you're pretty comfortable in your bike handling skills and riding on lightly travelled roads.