Discussion: NAOC 2012?

anybody know the Where? And When?

It will be at the Delaware Water Gap in late October, 2012 if my plans are realized. (Terrain similiar to the 2000 US Champs and an event of similiar magnitude.)

That would be sweet!

Great. Thanks. I missed that race in 2000 but heard amazing stories about the terrain.

If it comes together, I'm hoping for a schedule similar to this past year's NAOCs but with something new added as a 4th race and for inclusion in the BK scoring list. I look forward to tossing that idea out here for debate!

Cool. A 3-person relay would be a great addition. Perhaps three categories (Open, Total Age under 50, Total Age over 150) to keep the number of teams and therefore competition high. And teams are country based (of course they can choose their club, province, etc.) so lots of options to make teams.

Perhaps put the sprint and middle on the same day so this would remain a 3-day championship like 2006, 2008, 2010.

Throw in some bonus points for the BK Cup.

Another reason to strike that COF-USOF committee on the NAOC.

Pretty much what I was thinking of :)

Like.
The only request is that eligibility and scoring rules be sorted out by then so we can defend the cup without any controversy.

Oh yes, I hope that will be done well in advance. It is putting the cart ahead of the horse somewhat, but I was hoping hammer and/or other designates would join a committee of luminaries to sort this out over the next year (i.e., before 2012). But, I am staying out of that part...

defend the cup? remember the times when US won it, was when a Canadian was meet director (on Canadian soil).. looking forward to go to Delaware gap after 12 years.. with Hammer absence there (in top form back then )- i think I won by few seconds ahead of Falcon -which is still on great shape now . so keep it simple- GO Canada !

Yes--I think that was the case. There was ridiculously tight competition for the top guys, but I think Nick took the seven second victory.

Day 1
Day 2

My request is that the organizers don't thumb the nose at the IOF as happened in 2004 and 2008.

188 and 199 competitors in probably 7 or 8 different classes on one course? That must have been brutal! Hope that never happens again!

That is anything but my intention, but I don't know exactly what you mean.

I hope to have as much IOF sanction as possible.

Well, maybe, but why? If you can do it with a reasonable start interval, why not?

It could be split up more, but in America it typically is not.

I and others approached the organizers of the 2008 NAOC with requests to sanction WREs and otherwise make the race more compliant with what the IOF expects of a Regional Championship, but received no replies and our requests were not met with consideration.

I will want as many races sanctioned as WREs as possible, and generally to be as compliant with IOF expectations as we can be.

Although the results on the DVOA club results page have combined things, there were in fact two green courses and two red courses at the 2000 US Champs. We did have over 100 on one of the green courses, however, and a very long start window as a result.

Good point Sandy. I hadn't realized the results were combined there.

All things equal, up to a reasonable level, I like a lot of people on a course. Assuming you can make the starts work fairly and not inconvenience people...

M45 on green?

For the DVOA club rankings, the age group designation is the "official" age group of the competitor regardless of what course they ran. So the age classes in those results are not necessarily the class in which a competitor ran.

Thanks for that clarification. The 'results' did look funny with some people listed in age categories, some not.
However the point is that a long start period is tough on everybody from officials to competitors. Since 2000 map printing, timing and control card checking (remember that?) techniques have evolved to the point where multiple couses can be offered with the advantage of a shorter start window. Any time of year but particularly in the fall a spread of several hours can make a big difference in the weather conditions participants on the same course may face.
A shorter start period speeds up the dispersal of the orienteers in to the woods and hopefully hastens the return of the last participants, the return of the maps and the end of the day for tired officials and car mates waiting for their friend who had the last start.
At the recent COC's we made a last minute split of one course for each the Middle and Long thus cutting close to an hour off the start officials' days.

We'd need to go back further than 2000 to remember those old school drills. Maps and courses were offset for that event and epunching obviated the whole control card checking thing...

Your point is a good one, though. No one wants a start window longer than necessary.

I definitely like the relay idea for the BK points. We don't get enough relay practice, especially since it's not part of the COC's for us anymore. And that would give each country's national team another chance to run a relay together as opposed to most relays where we run with our club.
I vote for that for sure!

Each country could probably field at least an additional "B" team (and maybe even a "C" team) so that there's a little more action in the good vs. evil battle.

If we were really keen, we could keep scoring for the relay the same as for individual events - top three teams from each country get points. That way more people can have something to race for.

I really like Boris' idea on the BK relay scoring. The more teams racing the more exciting the event. Assuming 3 people per team this means that each country is now going a minimum of 9 deep on their men and women's teams in the scoring. The 9th best man or woman likely isn't going to make each country's WOC team but training for and being selected to represent your country at the NAOC on one of the top three teams could/should be very motivating for many athletes. If there are few relay categories (one might be enough) then the teams representing each country will be a mix of elites, junior elites, masters etc. I like how this can incorporate juniors into the BK mix. Heck, why not have the junior elites and elites run the same course in the sprint and middle races. This way the juniors can race their own category and in the elite category in those two distances - and potentially score points for their country in the BK Cup too,

>Each country could probably field at least an additional "B" team (and maybe even >a "C" team) so that there's a little more action in the good vs. evil battle.

yes, I am sure Canada will be able to field several of the "good" teams.

You mean they're going to run for the US?

Well, let's hold on a minute. EMPO is planning a bid for NAOC 2012, at Lake George in New York, on a new pristine map. Probably September.

How's this for an NAOC relay event idea? Each country enters one 3-person team per age category (five year increments for Masters) and each winning relay team scores one point for their country. It would be a kind of Ryder Cup (golf) for orienteering.
Good luck EMPO and DVOA. Both are wonderful areas for forest navigation.

I think the relay should be a chase start for the BK cup. First team across the line wins it all!