Discussion: Aftermath

Thanks to everyone who came out to today's event! There were about 50 competitors, and the weather was clear though cold and windy. Congratulations to Ross Smith and Ali Crocker, the winning man and woman respectively! Full results will be posted shortly.

Any feedback on the race would be very much appreciated - from the logistics to the course. This was my first time course setting the race, and I especially welcome comments and critiques of the course design. It was noted, for instance, that not having the control descriptions printed on the map was a problem.

Also, please note that the map printing was done via a new method that Ed Despard looked into and executed. I will ask him to post the details of the method and the company in Boston that does it. The maps looked spectacular, and were much easier to read even at 1:15. Many thanks for all his work making the event happen.

Map printing and course were very nice.

I particularly liked the way the two maps were on once sheet of paper, facilitating archiving and helping to ensure they didn't slide around too much.

Also, soup and refreshments were very nice.

Thanks to everyone involved. Ian--very nice debut.

The one piece of constructive criticism would be to have more than one punch at the second, and possibly the third controls, too. The two punches at #1 were, of course, much appreciated.

Finally, I'm sure it was posted somewhere, but it was not perfectly clear how the start worked, i.e., that it was remote and that showing up at 10:30-10:40 was almost too late.

Control descriptions should always be on the map, too. Extra ones handed out in advance are a welcome courtesy, but they should always be on the map.

Everything else was quite nice, or at least, as nice as it can get in the Blue Hills.

"How the start worked"
In our vehicle, I think we were expecting an announcement (eg, bugle/Chariots of Fire etc) in the parking lot re time to go/where to go - particularly when it's cold & one is not likely to be paying (as) much attention.

I had a lot of fun yesterday. Thanks Ian. Some tiny issues with the map:

Right out of the start, there was a patch of unmapped green that threw me off.

Just before #16 I came across a bit of stone wall that I didn't see on the map. If I had more confidence I would have realized it was obscured by the circle. As it was, I paused a bit. So consider opening up the circle or line if it obscures key navigational features.

You shouldn't have let people talk you into changing the control description of #21 from boulders to stony ground. It's boulders on the map. Having a control in stony ground in a generally rocky area was a bit amusing I must admit.

Link to preliminary results from NEOC website
http://www.newenglandorienteering.org/index.php/re...

Control descriptions? We ain't got no control descriptions! We don't need no control descriptions! I don't have to show you any stinkin' control descriptions!

A uniformly positive review, from my perspective. The map was readable, even for aging eyes, and the amenities like food and shirts were very nice (I hope Judy knows how welcome the hot soup is every year). Most important, you set a good course: challenging navigation without super-long trail runs or (much) brutal climbing. Thank you!

Agreed. An excellent thoughtful course design. I also appreciated the emphasis on navigation and the absence of gratuitous trail running or climb.

I was wondering about a few things which were different this year and how runners felt about them.
The crossing of Rt 28 was a straight shot across, was this a problem for anyone being held up or racing in front of cars?
And the food station was not at a control. Did this cause some runners to inadvertently miss it, or is it OK to have it be optional?

Clues were supposed to be on the map, but in a time crunch to get to the printer, either they weren't ready or just were forgotten.
I should have inserted them manually, but I didn't think this would be a concern to anyone. I use an external holder, but I must remember that many do not. My fault.

I also was disappointed we could not produce results better, but I didn't see too many looking at those we had up. Is this something we need, or it it OK to not have any and everyone just compares their splits sheets?

As for the Blue Hills East map, updates along the course were minimal ( around 5 and 8), so it was essentially the same map as 2 years ago.
I did some updating of the building and resevoir using Google Earth, but I wouldn't think anyone encountered these areas on this year's course.

It is great having other course designers, it gives a different feel each time.

Good questions, Jeff -

I was planning on stopping for food at the halfway point, but it turned out I felt better than usual so just grabbed a drink. I didn't see whether there was any food there because the table was on the other side of the road from where I was going -- the person manning the stand was holding out cups to me (thanks!). Going forward I think I personally might not miss having a 1/2-way table as long as I remember to bring a snack with me.

I would have liked to see the standings as I came in, so if we can figure out a way to post them as the runners come in that would be great.

The main issue I have with the map (which by the way is actually pretty good despite what I've said) is that rocky ground is undermapped. If the significant rockpiles were mapped I think it would be much better. E,g, On the way to that cliff in the scruffy reentrant, I came across what *might* have been considered a cliff facing the right way that made me pause for a bit (I wasn't the only one.) Of course I should have known better, because the control point was reused from a course I had designed. ;-/

Dude, building footprints from lidar as vectors from MassGIS are already included in the Blue Hills ocad basemap I sent you last year. The reservoir should also be visible in the color orthophoto tiles or better still in the unsharp lidar tiles (or even just using the 0.5m lidar contours), all of which are still posted at the above link. Remap BHE! You know you want to :)

I never knew there was a food station until after I was done. I did see the cup on the map, but I thought that was just indicating that there was water at the control (which there was, when I got there).

I also missed the food station, and wouldn't have minded stopping at it, but by the time I realized that I had just missed it, I wasn't going to turn around. I think for a long race, where it is advertised that there will be a food stop, it is important to either have it at a control or on a leg where there is no other obvious route choice. I was fine without extra fig newtons, though =).

I thought it was an interesting course, although by the time I hit the last loop (24-27) I was maybe cursing Ian a little bit for sending us so close to the finish without letting us finish. Felt like it was lacking in some longer route choice legs, but that also avoided extra trails, so I guess there are pros and cons either way.

And BHE, well, I was ready for it and all its stupid rocks this year, so it threw me off a lot less than last year.

Thanks to all involved for putting on the event.

I stopped for ten or fifteen seconds heading to the 16th, just at the edge of the circle. There was a huge hill in front of me, and I still can't see a corresponding contour on the map.

Did people go straight 9 to 10? I went left, but it seemed like the vegetation wasn't bad, so I cut the corner, and it was ok.

Thanks to all the organisers and competitors. I had fun and then some.

I didn't realize there was a food stop either, but I did have some water somewhere.

There was a huge hill in front of me

Glad to know that I wasn't the only one baffled by this. But I just shrugged and climbed it, and was glad to see the control up there.

Route Gadget is now up: http://www.newenglandorienteering.org/rg/cgi-bin/r...

If you squint at the map there you can see vague hints of form-lines that indicate the hill at #16.

If you squint at the map there you can see vague hints of form-lines that indicate the hill at #16.

I am always squinting at the map.

And BHE, well, I was ready for it and all its stupid rocks this year, so it threw me off a lot less than last year.

I found BHE quite readable and generally liked it better than I remembered it from past years.

I didn't realize there was a food stop either

There was a food stop? Had to hunt for the cup on the map now that I've been told about it. I didn't go by there and never gave it a thought. I was on the road and cut in as it started to go downhill.

Other cluelessness - I forgot this was 1:15000 and kept wondering why it was taking me so long to get places. Pretty legible, given the scale.

On Results: I like the the "old fashioned" names and times written on a big White Board. Something I could enjoy even if I am frazzled, exhausted, shivering cold. The little slips with fineprint that is even harder to read than the map will not do for me.
I echo TP's comments: fun course throughout! Thanks, Ian!
Thanks Judy: I am great fan of the signature BHT minestroni!

I also appreciate results at the meet in addition to the little split sheets.

If you squint at the map there you can see vague hints of form-lines that indicate the hill at #16.

Well, there was a little smudge of brown in the centre (almost) of my control circle indicating something which didn't correspond in the slightest to the hill at #16. Apart from that, I don't see a contour, even on the RG map.

Side-by-side comparisons of 2010 BHW #16 and the lidar contours:

5m contours
2.5m contours
0.5m contours

The blue vectors are from a statewide wetlands dataset. Not super-accurate, but give the general idea where wetness may occur.

Ah, there's the hill.

I did have to wait at the road crossing. I was the back of my pack and they all got across. It was annoying because the guys had already left by the time I finally got into #10.

I wasn't there but the amazing Route Gadget program allowed me to see the routes, the map and how people did. I wish I was there and ran the course. Seems like great fun was had by all!

The Route 28 road crossing is a tough one. That is hard to finesse, and in a head-to-head sort of race, it is even more difficult.

A food/refreshment stop needs to be at a control, best by a road (in part for convenience), such as Rte 28 Sunday, eg, just before crossing (near-continuous cars for me) - offers a save-time option. #17 was about the optimal place distance-wise but an option shown as a water stop.

It was likely my first BHT within memory w/o refreshment at a control.

Ernst L always carries 'Goo' which strikes me as a good alternative/supplement for flexibility. Silly me, without a single calorie until finishing.

Setting a leg diagonally across a road allows one to run alongside the road if cars are passing without losing too much.

Thanks Eddie!