Used to hold a compass (poor quality) in my left hand, map in right. Tried thumb compass the other day. Thumb compass was hindering me from reading map. made one .5k error when i ran in the opp. direction -never done that before. Also couldn't follow along easily w/ finger on the map. Another problem was the map was small and when i tried to line up the compass sometimes it obscured what I wanted to read, and also i caught myself twisting my hand in weird contortions to get it to point north.
Should I continue to work on using thumb compass, or get a good quality base plate to work w/ as I used to, on an as-needed basis?
give it more time and some training ( not competition) to get confidence. don't know your age but the older you get, the harder to learn/like new things.I believe confidence in training using the new compass will be suffice
Have to say, I always found the larger thumb compasses a pain to use. I use the Spectra wrist compass now
http://www.silva.se/orienteering/spectra/index.htm
I rarely see it on sale though.
It took me a whole summer of orienteering almost every day to get used to a thumb compass back in 2001, but i'm glad i did it. I'd recommend giving it some more time.
Whether you use a thumb compass or a base plate, the compass should be on the map, not in the other hand. This way you see the compass needle in the same time as the map.
Also, you don't need to line the compass up with the line between the controls. You can have it slightly off-set, so that you see the area on both sides of the line.
It also depends on what you thumb: Some people put the thumb (or the compass pointer) to where they want to go next. This doesn't work well with the thumb compass. If you put it where you located yourself the last time for sure and move it along gently to where you are now, only the area already passed it covered up.
As Boris said, it takes time. It is a change of habit. In the beginning I had a hard time to navigate precisely in one direction, I drifted more than with the baseplate. I really got the hang of it when the base plate compass was shattered after a hard fall in Central Park and the thumb compass was the only other compass around.
Believe it or not I switched from base-plate to thumb compass recently after 20 years of using base-plate.
http://www.attackpoint.org/discussionthread.jsp/me...
I was not planning to switch however this is what happened. I did not have a compass with me for one of the local meets and all the good club’s “loaner” compasses were gone. One of the club members loaned her thumb compass for this particular meet. It was probably first time in 15 years I was using thumb compass.
Having thumb compass enforces you to hold compass and map in the same hand. While running through this course I noticed that my map would switch hands at least 65 times during the run. Then I realized that regardless of compass I am using my map holding habits were probably one of the worst in the business. It was kind of shocking discovery for myself since I consider myself decent orienteer.
Since then I have focused on improving my map holding skills and once I made a switch to thumb compass and I am loving it.
I am used to run with
this. Thumb compass with lots of free space around thumb, easy to move thumb & read map & get good grip. And it can be also used as regular base plate if needed. And not difficult to make - I have modified Moscompass, Silva and Suunto base plates succesfully. If you have old plase plates you don't use any more, all you need is a bit drilling and sawing ...
Thanks all. Nice pic Jagge, if I sawed off 3/16 of my exist. thumb compass my thumb could have contact w/ the map, I think I would like that. The Spectra looks interesting too. Either that, or thumb growth hormones.
Are you using a Right Handed compass? When I switched to thumb compass I found I had developed thumbing and grown used to using my left hand on the map, and even though I was more comfortable using the compass with my right hand i needed it on my left so i could hold the map the way i was used to.
I use the spectra system, it was another learning experience as was the switch to thumb. I am glad i switched. I was using my normal degree marked compass in a similar fashion, where i was just estimated the approximate direction of the needle for my leg, the colours and divisions made that a whole lot easier.
My mistake though was making a switch from normal baseplate to spectra thumb all in one day, and in a race. It cost me the race, if i remember correctly i don't think i even finished that race, and i was glad i carried my old compass in my pocket for reference a couple times. But after have made my mistakes, and becoming more comfortable with the compass that night i did well in my next 2 races of the weekend.
i caught myself twisting my hand in weird contortions to get it to point north
This may be different from how it sounds, but if it is how it sounds, then here's a word of advice:
Don't contort your hand. Turn your entire body.
Rudy, I'm surprised it was your first 180 error :). To me its not so much a 'thumb compass' issue, as it is an example of 's___ happens'. Since all lettering, including control #'s, on the map is northward, that should prevent 180's - but sometimes it doesn't.
I once believed that 'thumbing along' was criticial to O' success, but I couldn't figure out how to do it with a thumb compass - gave up trying. Now, I line the thumb compass 'edge' parallel to my intended/current direction (frequently not the red-line), but off to side of current direction enough so I can see both sides of the route. Instead of thumbing, I feel that I have learned to continually match map to feature so that I KNOW that I am now at 'this rentrant' or 'this knoll' - it has taken a while to adapt to this. As I check-off features, I move compass and turn map as needed. Also, the guide is close enough to allow distance/pace estimates ('about 1.5 tick marks so roughly 60 paces'). So for me, using the compass edge, good map reading, and staying focussed seem to be more efficient than 'thumbing along', even if I could learn to do it.
Are you using a Right Handed compass? Yes. I started with a base plate when I was 6 years old. I soon started to keep the map under my base plate in my right had. Especially while approaching a control. And usually after finding it I took bearing and left the control using just compass. Nobody teached me that, I just felt it was right and I think there was no thumb compasses yet available back then. At age of 15 I once or twice tried a thumb compass, but there was only left hand models at that time. Because I already had build motorics for right hand, I thought I was too old (15!) to learn everyting again, so I started to modify my old base plates. My first models were quite something, but soon I ended up with his simple solution, it simply suits best for me and my tehcnique.
I still sometimes get bearings, if I run over flat, green empty areas or a large marsh and control is right behind it. You don't get style points here, just time matters. So I kind of never changed my tehcnique. Maybe this is why I still sometimes run like a 10 year old ;]
there was no thumb compasses yet available back then
The first 'thumb compasses' appeared in the mid 70-ies. I remember that Matti Mäkinen won O-ringen in 1975 using a wrist compass. I wouldn´t be surprised if this is a major reason for the concept to develop and become succesful...
I can't find anybody who sells the wrist spectra anymore. That's really too bad, because I personally think it's the best system.
That said, I think it's far more important to be comfortable with whatever you are using then to have the "best" setup. I use a thumb compass for orienteering and a base plate in adventure racing. As such I practice plenty with each and can switch back and forth without difficulty. It took a LOT of practice to get to that point.
Listed under 'nexus' 'imported by brunton', berman o supply:
"6Spectra (L or R): Pure thumb compass for orienting the map, with colored sectors around the capsule for quick alignment. Mm and 1:15000 scales. Uses rubber pads for stabilizing the map Cat# 12017L or 12017R $69.00
66Jet: Special wrist/thumb compass for orienting the map, that sits on the base of the thumb, held on by a strap around the thumb and wrist, will fit on either hand. Cat# 12018 $72.50"
looks like Gale O' has this too. Is this the same item you are referring to?
Having thumb compass enforces you to hold compass and map in the same hand.
Well, actually, for a long time I held my map in my right hand and my thumb compass in my left. It has only been in the past five years that I've transitioned to holding my map with the compass in my left hand. I'm still better at reading the map when I hold it in my right hand, so sometimes I transfer the map to my right hand during a race to help me read a long or complex leg.
This is the problem with not learning how to do simple things like holding the map and compass correctly from the beginning.
Presuming one holds the thumb compass and map in the same hand, does it matter if it is the right or left?-) I'm right handed, and think I would prefer to have them both in my right hand - but the notes I have seen indicate a right handed person would get a left thumb compass... (to leave the right hand free?)
I used to own a right-handed thumb compass and hold the map in my right also. When I moved to the northern hemisphere I got a left-handed thumb compass and switched both to the left.
Both worked fine for me but one benefit of left-handed compass is I can punch more quickly and easily with my more-coordinated right hand.
Right-handed compasses (I was usually looking for a Silva) seemed harder to come by, but I'm not sure why.
I'm right-handed, and I carry map and thumb compass in my right hand. Before that, I carried map and baseplate compass in my right hand. This is unusual, though. Go with whatever you're comfortable with.
Eric, You need that extra hand free to hit back in case you are ever attacked by a Canadian in an international race.
Wow! Great idea Jagge! I'm going to do the elastic part without cutting the compass. It seems like a matter of personal preference which hand you hold it in. I usually hold my baseplate in my right hand, so thats what I'll try. (I'm right handed)
I've sketched a compass - can somebody tell me how to post the picture here?
Let your map-hand choose your compass-hand. That is, most of us seem to strongly prefer one hand for map holding and reading. Make that your thumb compass hand as well. If you constantly find your map and compass in different hands, buy the 'other thumb' compass (that's how Zan found she preferred right over left; and how I got a fre extra compass from her).
I am right handed but I use left handed thumb compass and I hold map in the left hand as well. I never thought about trying to hold map and compass with my right hand but kind of make sense to do this with your dominant hand. I shall try to do so in near future.
Dominant hand, dominant foot, etc... - generally seems to be the "power" side vs. the other side being the balance, control side. I'm thinking of soccer, triple jump, boxing, etc... I know this is a huge generalization, but for me that seems to mean (as I'm right-handed), holding the compass and map in my left hand, while my right pushes branches aside, grabs water bottles, braces of the ground when climbing, etc... I could probably equally learn to hold map/compass in my right (and I do in AR), but then it would take me much longer to get my left up to doing up zippers, catching myself when I fall, tieing up my shoes, ...
And e-punching with my right is much easier - I should add that.
Rudy wrote:
"66Jet: Special wrist/thumb compass for orienting the map, that sits on the base of the thumb, held on by a strap around the thumb and wrist, will fit on either hand. Cat# 12018 $72.50"
looks like Gale O' has this too. Is this the same item you are referring to?"
That sounds similar to the one I have. Although mine is the SILVA 66 O.M.C. SPECTRA
Dominant hand? What about dominant EYE? That's the side I hold the map/compass on.
Fossil,
Yeah I figured eyes would probably be another deciding factor, but I can only speak from experience and it doesn't work that way for me.
Have never used a base plate compass..i know how too but have always used a thumb compass. For me taking a bearing is useless, i cant rely on it, i find it much more useful to be able to read the contours and the land. I think too many people rely on bearings and when it comes unstuck then they have no idea how to relocate. Just my opinion and im only young!
Have also always held my map and compass in my left hand as i need my right hand free for punching, stopping from falling and making it easier to climb down and around boulders/cliffs!
"For me taking a bearing is useless, i cant rely on it, i find it much more useful to be able to read the contours and the land. I think too many people rely on bearings and when it comes unstuck then they have no idea how to relocate."
When I started orienteering, I felt the same way. I was better off to just pick my landmarks close together and follow them to the control. But as I started to get into the tougher longer courses, it became obvious how important bearings were. You can only get so far without taking at least semi-accurate bearings, but relocation is also important.
This is all from my experience at the ripe old age of 20.
haha well im only 18..i do sometimes take bearings but generally on our long 1-2km legs i break my legs up into smaller legs that you can run quickly with good map contact thus reducing the need for long bearings!
There is something passe about compasses.
I started on a thumb compass and have never had any problems.
Given it will never be quite as acurate over longer legs but if u use it right it is perfect. Reading the features is more important.
I feel it is slower to use a base plate if ur gonna use it properly and if not why use something which will be more bulcky anyway.
Yeah, I only take a bearing when I have to, but when I have to sometimes I have problems, because I'm not very good at it.
I've heard a surprising number of orienteers say they're unskilled at following a compass bearing. This is something that even novices can do very well at with a little directed practice, unlike reading the map and relating it to the terrain while running, which takes years of practice to become good at.
i was never taught about bearings..just kind of learned. was taught from day one how to read the terrain and relate it to the map. works alot better!
One thing that may be a bit surprising is that you really can´t find much evidence of runners using different types of compasses for different types of events. There are certainly several elements of different O techniques being presented to consider this an issue. Adventure racing is one type of different event when it comes to orienteering (I guess, since I´ve never been in one) and it has been mentioned above that the base plate compass may be more common there. But what about other races...?
I had a discussion some years ago with one of my friends and he pointed out the need to actually adapt to what kind of race and what kind of terrain you were racing in. In certain types of terrain (not too detailed) I can imagine the base plate being better for precision bearings, while the thumb compass would be better for 'middle distance' type orienteering with intense map-reading.
I have found out lately that I much would prefer to go back to the base plate for night orienteering since I can´t follow a precision bearing very well with my thumb compass (where there is little map detail to support). Unfortunately I keep forgetting to bring it along to night races (it´s not usually in my O bag) and haven´t used my base plate for years.
What about sprint? Is it really necessary to carry a compass at all (in a park/city sprint)?
What about sprint? Is it really necessary to carry a compass at all (in a park/city sprint)?
I am not planning to change my routine for Sprint vs. Middle vs. Long course regarding compass even I have heard other opinions that compass is not useful in Sprints. I feel it is important for me to have the same basic technique for course types listed above rather then thinking – this is Sprint - I should not use compass; this is Long course - I should hold map on the right hand. I have not lost Sprint course because of improper or excessive use of compass yet.
I've run several sprints where I haven't bothered looking at my compass, and on at least one of those times, I regretted it. I think sprints use all the same skills; they just put a premium on applying them quickly. I would think the time lost due to adjusting to different equipment would outweigh the time gained due to any inherent efficiency in a purpose-built compass (presumably, both values would be just a few seconds, but seconds can matter quite a lot in a sprint).
The reason I switch to baseplate in adventure racing is because it's really hard to mountain bike or paddle with a thumb compass. That's why I wanted to get the Silva 66 OMC Spectra wrist compass (which appears to be discontinued). If the 66Jet is basically the same thing, I'll be ordering one soon.
The Russians (Moscow Compass) seem to have engineered a wrist compass. I think it is meant for bike-o (but does it make sense to have your compass on the wrist while biking... wouldn't it be better to glue it on the map holder?)
Or clip it on. For sports where the map goes in a holder instead of in your hand, due to your hands being otherwise occupied (ski-O, bike-O, canoe-O), it makes sense to me to use a compass attached to the map. Even more than when you're actually going through the woods, those disciplines really only need a compass to keep the map oriented.
This discussion thread is closed.