Discussion: Head lamps
in: Orienteering; Gear & Toys
Dec 16, 2006 2:32 PM
#
My 20W halogen is getting old and am planning to buy a new head lamp set. Have you heard is there some new toys coming worth waiting? I don't do any long AR, just plain Night O training and racing (45 - 90 minutes). I am not a top O racer, but not quite a beginner either.
What would be the the best way to go for me - halogen, HID or led? Can you recommend any brands? Thanks!
What would be the the best way to go for me - halogen, HID or led? Can you recommend any brands? Thanks!
Dec 17, 2006 2:55 AM
#
pfc:
An earlier thread here - it should get you started. (Scroll down a bit to get to the HID vs. halogen discussion.)
As I posted before, I think context is important in figuring out what's best. Since you're focused more on O than AR (good map, good setting), the main issue may be how reflective the controls are - that might drive the decision between HID/LED.
I'm currently using a Petzl Myo XP for Night-O. It has enough juice to see features to 20m and reflective tape to 50m, but isn't too bright when looking at the map. It adjusts to three different intensities and in my opinion, offers a nice tradeoff between power and efficiency.
As I posted before, I think context is important in figuring out what's best. Since you're focused more on O than AR (good map, good setting), the main issue may be how reflective the controls are - that might drive the decision between HID/LED.
I'm currently using a Petzl Myo XP for Night-O. It has enough juice to see features to 20m and reflective tape to 50m, but isn't too bright when looking at the map. It adjusts to three different intensities and in my opinion, offers a nice tradeoff between power and efficiency.
Dec 19, 2006 4:34 AM
#
There was also some discussion in bubo's log, here.
In that discussion (link above), bubo mentions Lupine and Mila as sources of HID lights, and there are links to those manufacturers.
Honestly, though, I recommend you find a bunch of people with headlamps and talk to them. I'm thinking Jukola (or Tiomila if you can't wait that long).
I would love to see an English-language article, website, or post that compares headlamps and headlamp technologies (LED/Halogen/HID, NiCad, NiHM, Lithium). Maybe someone planning to go to Tiomila or Jukola could plan to walk around, gather information, and write about it. Some user reviews and objective tests would be great.
The lack of information might be an indication that 10W/20W halogen headlamps are a commodity, i.e., that the performance is so similar that you just need to buy one and you'll be competitive. With the new technologies, HID and LED and Lithium batteries, maybe that is changing.
I've seen one 5W LED headlamp (J-J's homebrew hatlamp) and the 5W is pretty impressive for moving through the woods, but maybe not as good as other lamps for finding controls. From what I've been reading, the 5W LED Luxeon is quite complicated to use correctly---A considerable amount of heatsinking and temperature monitoring is necessary to protect it from damage. It would be neat to see what 4 of these together (20W) would do. Prices are pretty high for these right now. 3W LEDs for flashlights seem to be sprouting up everywhere. An array of 3W LEDs might be promising.
I'm playing with some lithium-ion battery packs (the kind that have been exploding in laptops recently), and they have some weird characteristics. For example, it's bad to charge them up and leave them charged for months and months because it causes a permanent reduction in capacity. Surprisingly, it's okay to leave them in the discharged state for months and months, and although there is some evidence of reduced capacity, it's minor compared to the damage done if you store them fully charged. Also, it's vital to have a device to prevent using the battery below a certain voltage. Apparently the best thing to do with these is to cycle them regularly. I now run my iPod and cell phone down a lot more than I used to because of this---I don't keep the charge high. I know these have less weight than NiMH batteries, but I'm not sure they're better. It might not be worth the extra hassle. Maybe in a few years they'll be ready.
In that discussion (link above), bubo mentions Lupine and Mila as sources of HID lights, and there are links to those manufacturers.
Honestly, though, I recommend you find a bunch of people with headlamps and talk to them. I'm thinking Jukola (or Tiomila if you can't wait that long).
I would love to see an English-language article, website, or post that compares headlamps and headlamp technologies (LED/Halogen/HID, NiCad, NiHM, Lithium). Maybe someone planning to go to Tiomila or Jukola could plan to walk around, gather information, and write about it. Some user reviews and objective tests would be great.
The lack of information might be an indication that 10W/20W halogen headlamps are a commodity, i.e., that the performance is so similar that you just need to buy one and you'll be competitive. With the new technologies, HID and LED and Lithium batteries, maybe that is changing.
I've seen one 5W LED headlamp (J-J's homebrew hatlamp) and the 5W is pretty impressive for moving through the woods, but maybe not as good as other lamps for finding controls. From what I've been reading, the 5W LED Luxeon is quite complicated to use correctly---A considerable amount of heatsinking and temperature monitoring is necessary to protect it from damage. It would be neat to see what 4 of these together (20W) would do. Prices are pretty high for these right now. 3W LEDs for flashlights seem to be sprouting up everywhere. An array of 3W LEDs might be promising.
I'm playing with some lithium-ion battery packs (the kind that have been exploding in laptops recently), and they have some weird characteristics. For example, it's bad to charge them up and leave them charged for months and months because it causes a permanent reduction in capacity. Surprisingly, it's okay to leave them in the discharged state for months and months, and although there is some evidence of reduced capacity, it's minor compared to the damage done if you store them fully charged. Also, it's vital to have a device to prevent using the battery below a certain voltage. Apparently the best thing to do with these is to cycle them regularly. I now run my iPod and cell phone down a lot more than I used to because of this---I don't keep the charge high. I know these have less weight than NiMH batteries, but I'm not sure they're better. It might not be worth the extra hassle. Maybe in a few years they'll be ready.
Dec 19, 2006 5:06 AM
#
Lith-ion rechargables are happiest at 40% charge. I generally keep my cell phone and laptop at less than 75% (the cell lasts for several days on a charge, and the laptop goes for 8 hours, so there's no real need to keep them topped up).
Unfortunately, that option is less appealing for the HID light. I may need it on a whim and I'll likely want something pretty close to its full run time. Therefore, I keep it fully charged, even though that means reducing it's capacitance. I've had the HID light for 2.5 years now, and still get around 4 hours, which is only down 10-15% from new, so the dropoff isn't that bad.
Keeping it out of the heat is more important than charge level. I store mine in the basement in the summer, even though all my other AR gear is in the garage.
Unfortunately, that option is less appealing for the HID light. I may need it on a whim and I'll likely want something pretty close to its full run time. Therefore, I keep it fully charged, even though that means reducing it's capacitance. I've had the HID light for 2.5 years now, and still get around 4 hours, which is only down 10-15% from new, so the dropoff isn't that bad.
Keeping it out of the heat is more important than charge level. I store mine in the basement in the summer, even though all my other AR gear is in the garage.
Dec 19, 2006 8:59 AM
#
I have heard there was recently article about these new head laps in Norvegian Veivalg magazine. But I haven't seen it.
I don't thing there will me many top teams with halogen lamps in tiomila 2007 - you need only two lamps per team you know.
From here it look's like the choices are:
- HID(Finnish) (Lupine or Mila)
- Led(Finnish), Lupine at the bottom of the page (4 x 3W led array).
- ordering parts from here(English, I guess these are the parts Mila uses) and attaching it on one of my old head lamps instead of halogen reflector. But some home brewing is needed here.
find a bunch of people with headlamps and talk to them You have more experience - some of you do AR and technology is be developed/used more in the US. I don't anyone here has used HID & Lith-ion rechargables for 2.5 years like Eric and could write like that about storing experiences.
I don't thing there will me many top teams with halogen lamps in tiomila 2007 - you need only two lamps per team you know.
From here it look's like the choices are:
- HID(Finnish) (Lupine or Mila)
- Led(Finnish), Lupine at the bottom of the page (4 x 3W led array).
- ordering parts from here(English, I guess these are the parts Mila uses) and attaching it on one of my old head lamps instead of halogen reflector. But some home brewing is needed here.
find a bunch of people with headlamps and talk to them You have more experience - some of you do AR and technology is be developed/used more in the US. I don't anyone here has used HID & Lith-ion rechargables for 2.5 years like Eric and could write like that about storing experiences.
Dec 19, 2006 11:43 AM
#
There are plenty of non-orienteers who spend a lot of time thinking about lighting, and it's worth looking into what they've done.
I raise a skeptical eyebrow to the claims above about LiIon batteries. I keep my laptop charged up most of the time, and I'm not convinced that it's hurting it.
My hatlamp uses a a 5W Luxeon Star attached to a heatsink, but there's nothing sophisticated about how I use it, just a current-limiting resistor and 3 CR123A cells. I'm planning on changing to better drive circuitry (current regulation).
The high-beam is a 12V 20W narrow spot halogen MR16 bulb driven by four 18250 LiIon cells scavenged from failed laptop batteries (which typically have only one or two bad cells). And I store them fully charged. I am careful to stop using the high-beam when the light noticeably dims. That light kicks butt, but I use it only for short periods, because the MR16 bulb gets pretty hot, and I can smell the ductape holding it all together start to smolder.
I raise a skeptical eyebrow to the claims above about LiIon batteries. I keep my laptop charged up most of the time, and I'm not convinced that it's hurting it.
My hatlamp uses a a 5W Luxeon Star attached to a heatsink, but there's nothing sophisticated about how I use it, just a current-limiting resistor and 3 CR123A cells. I'm planning on changing to better drive circuitry (current regulation).
The high-beam is a 12V 20W narrow spot halogen MR16 bulb driven by four 18250 LiIon cells scavenged from failed laptop batteries (which typically have only one or two bad cells). And I store them fully charged. I am careful to stop using the high-beam when the light noticeably dims. That light kicks butt, but I use it only for short periods, because the MR16 bulb gets pretty hot, and I can smell the ductape holding it all together start to smolder.
Dec 19, 2006 2:08 PM
#
J-J wrote: I raise a skeptical eyebrow to the claims above about LiIon batteries.
I went back and reread the handbook, and it turns out I was looking at the wrong figure (2-10 rather than 2-11). I'm going to have to think about this some more. I was thinking storing it fully charged for 1 year at 20C (room temperature) resulted in 80% capacity. That's incorrect. This is correct: If you store it for a year starting fully charged, you'll end up with batteries that have 90% capacity. The chart also says if you store it fully-charged for one month, you will have lost about 5% of the capacity. These 5 and 10% losses might just be the cost of using Li-Ion batteries.
I'm skeptical of this handbook because it has no data past 12 months, and it doesn't show the effect of repeatedly charging and storing. The reports I've found for laptop batteries show that 3 year old good packs are rare. So in 3 years, typically at least one cell in 6 or 8 cells is failing.
The information I've read is from Sanyo, here, mostly in Chapter 2, particularly section 2-5-3.
Actually this discussion removes one of the big problems I've had with Li-Ion batteries.
I've got so many battery packs and cells that I'm always amazed that companies don't tell you exactly how to care for the batteries to make them last. I've been surprised at the failure rates of Li-Ion, but I'm also surprised at the failure of NiMH packs when left sitting around for a year. You have to be a battery expert to avoid spending loads of cash, and more and more it seems that even that isn't enough.
I went back and reread the handbook, and it turns out I was looking at the wrong figure (2-10 rather than 2-11). I'm going to have to think about this some more. I was thinking storing it fully charged for 1 year at 20C (room temperature) resulted in 80% capacity. That's incorrect. This is correct: If you store it for a year starting fully charged, you'll end up with batteries that have 90% capacity. The chart also says if you store it fully-charged for one month, you will have lost about 5% of the capacity. These 5 and 10% losses might just be the cost of using Li-Ion batteries.
I'm skeptical of this handbook because it has no data past 12 months, and it doesn't show the effect of repeatedly charging and storing. The reports I've found for laptop batteries show that 3 year old good packs are rare. So in 3 years, typically at least one cell in 6 or 8 cells is failing.
The information I've read is from Sanyo, here, mostly in Chapter 2, particularly section 2-5-3.
Actually this discussion removes one of the big problems I've had with Li-Ion batteries.
I've got so many battery packs and cells that I'm always amazed that companies don't tell you exactly how to care for the batteries to make them last. I've been surprised at the failure rates of Li-Ion, but I'm also surprised at the failure of NiMH packs when left sitting around for a year. You have to be a battery expert to avoid spending loads of cash, and more and more it seems that even that isn't enough.
Dec 19, 2006 7:43 PM
#
I don't spend any money on them at all. It's all scavenged from the copious supply of dead laptop batteries at my disposal (just got another one the other day, but I haven't tested the cells yet). And the failure isn't usually a loss of capacity, it's flat out death of one or more cells.
The real cleverness in my system is the way I charge them without making them explode (which can easily happen with a naive approach!).
And a note about my 5W Luxeon LED -- I'm not driving it at anywhere near 5W at this point. Closer to 1W until I upgrade the drive circuitry.
The real cleverness in my system is the way I charge them without making them explode (which can easily happen with a naive approach!).
And a note about my 5W Luxeon LED -- I'm not driving it at anywhere near 5W at this point. Closer to 1W until I upgrade the drive circuitry.
Dec 19, 2006 11:59 PM
#
I've been using a headlamp with three 4W LED's for the past year. It is powered by a 4800 mAmp-hr Li-Ion battery pack. I've tested it on the lowest setting for 24 hrs continuously on. At the rogaine world champs in Australia it was on low-medium for the 11 hours of darkness. At full power, the light is blinding and the housing gets pretty hot.
With this lamp I'm satisfied that LED's can provide the lighting power and throw needed for night navigation.
This is an alpha prototype made by Atlas Devices. Unfortunately it is not yet available commercially, but if it were, the cost would run about $200.
With this lamp I'm satisfied that LED's can provide the lighting power and throw needed for night navigation.
This is an alpha prototype made by Atlas Devices. Unfortunately it is not yet available commercially, but if it were, the cost would run about $200.
Dec 20, 2006 12:14 PM
#
I'm a fan of 3W LEDs. For Rogaining I use a Princeton Tec Apex 3W LED. It has a nice regulator, and an option of 4 small LEDs for closeup work or map reading. It runs on AAs, and we usually use Lithium AAs in it. Also under $100 Canadian.
For adventure racing I made up a 3X3W headlamp. I got a special digital dimmer regulator circuit, and a lithium Ion rechargeable battery pack from Batteryspace. I also use an 8-AA lithium pack if I can't recharge.
I've used it in several ARs, and Bob Miller keeps borrowing it for Primal Quest, Hidalgo etc, where its incredible battery life on al lightweight battery pack is very handy. It can go for days on a single battery pack when burning at 80% or so. This light was 3rd at Primal Quest, and beat Nike Powerblast at Hidalgo!
Most of the parts came from Night Lightning, who can sell the whole made-up system but with a different regulator. http://www.nightlightning.co.nz/endurenz%20details...
For adventure racing I made up a 3X3W headlamp. I got a special digital dimmer regulator circuit, and a lithium Ion rechargeable battery pack from Batteryspace. I also use an 8-AA lithium pack if I can't recharge.
I've used it in several ARs, and Bob Miller keeps borrowing it for Primal Quest, Hidalgo etc, where its incredible battery life on al lightweight battery pack is very handy. It can go for days on a single battery pack when burning at 80% or so. This light was 3rd at Primal Quest, and beat Nike Powerblast at Hidalgo!
Most of the parts came from Night Lightning, who can sell the whole made-up system but with a different regulator. http://www.nightlightning.co.nz/endurenz%20details...
This discussion thread is closed.