Discussion: Newcomer friendly local events

Let's face it - orienteering meets are not very beginner friendly. Clubs host events tailored for their current members for the benefit of their current members. The seven course structure is a perfect example. Four of the seven courses are for experts. The other courses are designed as competitive courses for juniors. The sport uses arcane symbols and insider jargon. Beginner instruction is often limited to defining the map symbols and teaching people how to use a compass. There is little sense of competition as the courses are time-trials where you are competing as much against yourself as against others. The interval starts and large start window create an environment where people show up and leave at different times, so there is not much in the way of atmosphere or community. Remote unmanned finishes make finishing almost seem anticlimactic. Volunteers often perform their duties in a perfunctory manner while chatting with their friends with no desire to welcome or even recognize newcomers. Meets are often intimidating to newcomers who don't know what to do when they arrive on site. (At one club for instance, I have had to ask where the start is at roughly 3/4 of the meets I have attended.)

So how do you take this package and reformulate it into something that has greater appeal to more people, while cultivating the precision map reading that gives orienteering its essence? Here are my thoughts.

Start off with a single mass-start race, where beginners line up alongside elites. Divide it into three stages of increasing technical difficulty which loop back into the arena. You can complete any number of stages, but must meet a time cutoff to continue into the next stage. Winners are declared for each stage - you are only eligible for awards in the last stage you start. Maps for the first two stages are given out in advance of the race and competitors are allowed to discuss route choices and strategy in advance. This should help increase community and interaction, while also helping ease people into the sport. Include notes and recommendations in the race packet on the map for how to approach early routes. Host pre-race training, teaching, and strategy sessions. Instead of the traditional white-along-trails, get participants into the woods and off-trail early - to do this with beginners use oversized (think six foot) control flags that are spaced relatively close together (e.g. just out of sight of the previous control). Add GPS coordinates for controls to attract the geocaching/techie crowd - maybe even have actual geocaches separate from the main event. Add in all the fun arena stuff - announcing, prizes, food, swag. Beginners finish early and enjoy the arena while elites loop back through and finish to picnicking crowds.

Market as an adventure run which benefits a worthy cause/charity. Give corporate team awards. Promote in outdoor and running companies. Get local businesses to support the event with sponsorships, perhaps starting simply with coupons on the back of maps. Use meetup.com, groupon.com, and craigslist to advertise online (where else?). Contact the local papers and rags to promote the event.

Let's hear your best ideas!

Go for it, and let us know how it works!

I think that if you have a beginner-level product that requires instruction/explaining, you already lost. The best products are intuitive. People are now used to maps on their computer screens and devices; capitalize on it. Street Scramble has no beginner instruction because it isn't necessary; grab a map and go. (Some) street names are on the map. Use GPS if you want, we provide a UTM grid.

How to transfer this concept to a forested environment and to off-trail travel? Ben Legg has put some thought into it, and some of us here agree that a rogaine format is the way to go, but I don't think what you propose is better or worse.

Where are you speaking about? Australia? Canada? US? Your dot-dot-dot identity seems unnecessarily secretive. We're all friends here.

And I guess that's what troubles you about our sport. Altho I like some of your points (Maps...are given out in advance...and competitors are allowed to discuss route choices and strategy...) I think you overstate the difficulty for a newbie. After all, we were once newbies too...and we were attracted enough to overcome the "arcane symbols and insider jargon" and develop a passion for O.

Ever since my Boy Scout days I'd always thought I was proficient with a topo map and compass. My first O meet told me otherwise. But I wasn't turned off...I was challenged! From then on, I was attracted to the technical, physical and mental requirements of O...and yes, attracted to the jargon and symbols too. I didn't need or want a group...please Mother, I'd rather do it myself!

Where I live 90% of events are made for beginneers / non members. And most non orienteers I know who have tried O has liked they could any day go and try it at own pace, without having to sosialize or without having to made it in time to get to a mass start or something. No pre entry, you just show up. After finding out wether they like it or not thay can sosialize and take next step, join a club and try actual racing. Most don't, they keep on running these open evens, starting at age 35 is kind of late. But they usually take their kids along, and those kids may end up joining culb, start racing and they are potential future elite orienteers. That's how it works here.

What works in Northern and Eastern Europe doesn't necessarily work in North America. Too bad it took us 40 years to find out.

Multi dot has some interesting and great ideas there. They basically break down in to two categories - how to set a beginner-suitable competition and how to market.
I'm neither here nor there on the complex competition that multi-dots suggests but I do feel that many years ago we dumbed down the white (beginner) course to a level that many newcomers must wonder why they are paying anything for such a simple walk on trails. Current white courses are probably suitable for the very young going it alone but adult beginners should be offered more for the money. They get no sense of adventure from a trip around a typical beginner course.
As to marketing I'm reminded of an old Disney marketing principle: "Sell the sizzle not the steak." Orienteering would do better to promote how the participant is going to find himself/ herself lost and then found, get muddy, and tired and every time he/she finds one of those red and white flags theres going to be the exhilarating feeling of success! "Find yourself in the forest!"

Hey T/D, I saw my name! I'll say a few quick thing, and then bug out. First, I like a lot of the ideas this mystery man/woman brings up. If the mission is create a fun race experience, then there are some creative ideas for how pull it off. There will be logistical challenges, but solutions can be found for those. So I'll echo ndobbs. Go for it!

But, if one of you happens to know this mystery chap, than "go for it" is not enough. Pitch in and help him make this a reality. At least make sure you aren't standing in the way. Because if this mystery guy's experience is anything like my own, the last time he suggested an off the wall idea to members of the local club, the response was "Don't you think we should stick with the traditional approach?" There is so much conservatism. Dogma about fairness seems to be emphasized more than fun and excitement. And which is really more important?

When I came to this sport, I was looking for a fun summer camp activity. I used orienteering as a tool to get kids excited about being outdoors, and it worked great. I think orienteering can motivate all sorts of people get excited about being outdoors and being physically active. If I didn't think that was true, I would consider o-promotion to be a big waste of time. So it's sad for me; seeing orienteers struggling so hard to share an activity that has so much upside.

Pitch in and help him make this a reality

I heard MerGeo is hiring :) Get Lost!! is also open to partners/directors. With venture funding if possible.

Since I'm new to the sport, I thought I'd step out from lurker mode and contribute something. I've been to three events so far and done the recreational routes, thanks to ndobbs. I have the advantage of being introduced to the sport by a pro, so it's been easier for me than for someone trying this all on their own. Still, I have some feedback for seven periods.

" Volunteers often perform their duties in a perfunctory manner while chatting with their friends with no desire to welcome or even recognize newcomers"

I agree this would make a newcomer feel less welcome. It's ok if we have to ask our way around, as long as people respond warmly. So far, I think I've experienced a mix of volunteers from really friendly to perfunctory, but never rude or unwelcoming.

"There is little sense of competition as the courses are time-trials....."

I prefer time trial to mass start because then you get to figure the course out on your own. I admit I am not the competitive sort but as a beginner, I feel we are in no shape to really compete yet anyway. Time trials (i.e., separation from the pack) will, I think make us better map readers more quickly because we can't follow other people around and we are not so concerned with time that we don't stop to compare our surroundings to the map.

"The interval starts and large start window create an environment where people show up and leave at different times, so there is not much in the way of atmosphere or community."

I've found there to be more a sense of community when passing people while out on the course. This site also creates an amazing sense of community. I suppose it wouldn't hurt if people stuck around together at the event, but I think I think what's more important is that newcomers love the sport itself first, which I feel is basically an individual one. Then they will naturally be drawn to the others who share the sport as well, and the community building problem solves itself.

Having said this, how does one get newcomers to love the sport? Because this is key. For this, I really like the education-related ideas that seven periods has proposed. For example, when Neil discusses a course with me after I've botched it, that's really cool. As you know, whenever something has you still thinking about it days after you've done with it, that's a good sign.

Having strategy tips, particular after a race is a great idea, because we've just experienced the course. If holding an actual in-person discussion is tricky logistically, then perhaps if for each beginner course (except white, which is indeed ridiculously easy), a few experienced orienteers would be willing to draw up an "answer sheet" that included a tracing of the path they would have run, along with commentary, could be handed out after the race, so that beginners can see how a experienced orienteer would have done it and compare it with how they did it. The answer sheet method could also be less intimidating than going over all the silly things you did with a stranger, and going over it with another newbie might not be helpful either.

Not sure larger flags are necessary, and not sure I would want to flags to be just out of sight of each other.

Thanks for thinking of the newbies. I think orienteering is great! I'm 35, and I hear that's kind of late to start :-), so I might just stick to the recs for the rest of my life, which is fine with me. I'd bring my kids if I had any, for sure.

What works in Northern and Eastern Europe doesn't necessarily work in North America

About what works here. Key points: one big event/big goal anyone can take as challenge together with friends, a huge mass start team race. Tens of thousands competitors, world elite is there, massive media coverage, including TV. Everyone knows what it is or at least has heard of it. Race is pretty challenging, but not too challenging for beginners. To prepare for the goal one needs to train somehow. Here those open weekday evening events come in to play. Skiers, (marathon) runners and average joes can easily try and train for the big goal with their friends who have asked them to join the team (of friends/company). You can always see courses in advance, pick the one you like, discuss route choices, run course together with your friends, ask for advice/discuss in forest. Some find these event enjoyable without any big goals. And clubs happily put this events for the income.

So in short what works here is combination of the big goal with extensive media coverage, team sport/social aspect, easy straight forward gateway to make a visit from other sports to O, nice runnable areas nearby, weekday evening daylight, availability of public open events. Reason why Jukola and these open training events are getting fatter without number of licensed orienteers getting any bigger. By having here just one part of it - like those weekday evening events - there would be no success here either. Why would anyone go there?

Instead of copying just one part of it (like event format) one probably should re-produce the bigger picture somehow. Most part of the concept can't be copied just like that. Like media coverage, evening daylight, runnable forests with public access near or inside city and so on. But probably lot's of same aspects should be there, like media/marketing (internet/facebook/twitter instead of old media?), the big goal (???), teams/social aspect, connection to others sports(?), mass start (? social aspects, makes also logistics easier), runnable nearby areas (streets?), daylight (weekends instead of weekday evenings) and so on. Would look quite different than the thing we have here but still the mechanism for attracting people might not be all that different after all. I think what I try to say is the nice format of a single event isn't enough, there needs to be more. And if you have it all, format of a single event doesn't even matter so much. Or at least that's how I think.

It's never too late to start O :) What I meant with my silly 35 comments is these age 40 newcomers may have indirect but big impact on WOC team, so elite in mind better hook them.

I think Jagge has the right idea with the big picture being more important than individual events. That's the sort of thing we're trying to do in Ottawa with the Ottawa O-Fest. On the small picture scale though - we're looking at the possibility of adding a "City Navigation Race" next year which would be a 8-10 km orienteering race in downtown Ottawa with a 5 km option as well. All participants will be given the possibility of running with either an ISSOM map or with a Google satellite view map with text control descriptions. Those that wish can run with both versions of the map. Not sure yet if the event would be interval or mass start.

Go for mass start and don't use the N-word. Call it an urban adventure run.

I have taken friends out for a long walk on red. I forgo my competitive bid for the week (although this does not affect the frontrunners either way!), but then it's fun sometimes to read the map without much stress. I usually talk them through my strategy on the front half, and have them bring us home on the back.

Of the four times I've tried it, all have gone on to enter at least another event solo. One is now semi regular, one will probably be semi regular if he stops traveling on weekends, and I have hopes the other two will go out again when their lives quiet down.

A nice feature is if they get muddy and don't complain much, they enter the pool of potential AR teammates.

Not as big picture, but on some weeks, if one of these guys shows up, that can be a 10% bump in the number starts on a given course.

7Dot, thanks for posting, and also for the newbie lurkers, too. It's great to have other voices in this discussion so that it's not just Vlad, Neil, Ben and me talking amongst ourselves whenever this subject comes up.

Some comments on individual points:

The interval starts and large start window create an environment where people show up and leave at different times, so there is not much in the way of atmosphere or community.

An additional constraint with a large start window is needing more staff. In Seattle, our volunteer needs are a lot smaller with a mass start race. We pulled off an event in August with just three volunteers.

Start off with a single mass-start race, where beginners line up alongside elites. Divide it into three stages of increasing technical difficulty which loop back into the arena. You can complete any number of stages, but must meet a time cutoff to continue into the next stage.

This is a really clever twist! Here in Seattle, I'm the series director of our newest annual series, the Choose Your Adventure Series, which is a series of score-o's. Since some of the parks we used were on the small side, we did a few map-exchange score-o's, which is very similar to this concept. Everyone lines up at the start, and the faster you are, the more maps you get.

Beginners finish early and enjoy the arena while elites loop back through and finish to picnicking crowds.

If these loops are to be done immediately back-to-back-to-back, one thing to keep in mind is that you may not have beginners back in the arena. Oftentimes the elites can run three courses in the time that it takes intermediates to run two, and beginners to run one. Also, you may alienate some experienced orienteers who are no longer physically fast enough to qualify for the loop that they are the best at: the most technical!

Another similar concept is the sprint tournament. The elites still get to compete against the elites, yet everyone who isn't as fast can still run the same courses, but in the losers bracket.

I still really like your concept, though, 7Dot, I'm just tossing out things to think about.

Maps for the first two stages are given out in advance of the race and competitors are allowed to discuss route choices and strategy in advance. This should help increase community and interaction, while also helping ease people into the sport.

This definitely helps with the easing in period. Beginners tend to freak out a bit when they get their maps on the clock. I participate in a lot of Street Scrambles, which give you maps 30 minutes ahead of time, but I don't really see that much discussion and interaction beforehand. Teams hunker down and plan their own route, and then it's time to go. (Vlad, do you see anything different in San Francisco?)

Add GPS coordinates for controls to attract the geocaching/techie crowd - maybe even have actual geocaches separate from the main event.

Three years ago, I really pushed some of our local 6-hour and 8-hour events to the local geocaching community (posting on their active forums, months ahead of time, constant reminders, etc.), and GPS coordinates of all checkpoints were provided to anyone who wanted them. Zero geocachers came. There are probably better ways to meet the geocachers halfway, but generally speaking, they like the free, uncompetitive, and informal structure around geocaching, which really isn't what we do.

Add in all the fun arena stuff - announcing, prizes, food, swag. Market as an adventure run which benefits a worthy cause/charity. Give corporate team awards. Promote in outdoor and running companies. Get local businesses to support the event with sponsorships, perhaps starting simply with coupons on the back of maps. Use meetup.com, groupon.com, and craigslist to advertise online. Contact the local papers and rags to promote the event.

And here's the 800 pound gorilla. Orienteers, in general, do not want to do this. Either they have no desire to, or they don't know how to, or they don't have the time. Or a combination of the three.

Sell the sizzle not the steak.

The problem is, we're selling neither. It's hard to get people to eat if they don't know our restaurant exists.

We're looking at the possibility of adding a "City Navigation Race".
Go for mass start and don't use the N-word. Call it an urban adventure run.

+1

As an avid Orienteerer and Geocacher i prefer to keep the 2 separate, i always look to see if there is maybe an easy cache to find in the park but rarely combine the 2 as i am always too knackered and sick of the forest after I have spent the best part of 2 hours scrambling around to go geocaching afterwards and i never do it beforehand as i want to focus on the O part....so I wouldn't go down that route....at the event i was at this weekend in Rochester, NY there were a large number of Non-Oers who were very interested and were "cattled" separately in the parking lot while our members went over the basics and it felt very good and natural..they then went out on their own or in packs while the normal Oers did their/my usual walking in circles talking to themselves about trusting the compass before going out like the lone wolf...I don't think integration is totally necessary, keep them separate until the "muggle" turns into the wolf!

Vlad, do you see anything different in San Francisco?

We give maps one hour in advance, since 30 minutes forces a crazy schedule that makes us insane (everyone shows up at the last moment and check-in people are overwhelmed). At the Berkeley and Oakland Hills Street Scramble, the one that finally got the attendance back to mid-100s since Street Scramble left the Bay Area in 2007, there was quite a bit of interaction and discussion between teams during the course planning; most teams didn't know each other beforehand. I think that was because they were mostly Cal students, undergrads and management. We do a little bit of announcements at 20 minutes before the start, which mostly cuts off the course planning and people tend to socialize a bit between then and the start, too.

Either they have no desire to, or they don't know how to, or they don't have the time.

More like they don't need to. In a member-service organization, once the members have been served, there's no incentive to do much else.

Is there any Street Scramble history or future in Boston? Sounds like a hoot. And judging by the turnout of the recent SCVNGR thing, it might have traction. Definitely if you've got a pile of cars to give away, and maybe, just maybe, even if you don't.

Get Lost!!, MerGeo, and CSU discussed a possible Boston Night & Day Challenge in early 2013. I heard from CSU that 2012 would be too early because of the post-U.S. Champs burnout and because several of the club's most dedicated people are involved with the ski-O WCup in February.

For those unfamiliar, Night & Day Challenge = 16-hour Street Scramble.

ps: Ben, did any of that info I sent you help out on Saturday?

Either they have no desire to, or they don't know how to, or they don't have the time.
I would say this nails it, but I also feel like they don't even know what they are missing or why it matters.

On the active.com race organizer page, race days are described as "putting on a party, with an event in the middle of it." These guys get it.

But orienteers turn to O-USA for guidance, and here us what they get: http://orienteeringusa.org/club-leaders/starting-c...
Look carefully for what is missing. After the 21 point list of important meet features, you get an addendum that says "such esoteric factors as... hospitality" might be important.

Definitely did, thanks Patrick! Forgot to Nikwax my girlfriend's iphone, though. Did you get that looooong debrief I emailed you?

Ha! I just checked my spam folder, and it was in there for some reason. Thanks!

Ouch. Right square in my writing pride.

RE: We're looking at the possibility of adding a "City Navigation Race".
Go for mass start and don't use the N-word. Call it an urban adventure run.

I understand where you're coming from but here's my thinking:
I was trying to avoid the term adventure run because it means so many different things. I was hoping to be able to brand it as "Canada's First"... City Navigation Race or whatever. My understanding is that the kind of race I'm thinking of is called a City Race in England and is popular with orienteers there as in the London City Race. I suggested adding the term navigation because it adds a level of meaning to non-orienteers.

Input is always welcome though so keep bringing in the thoughtful comments.

There are a lot of themes you could try for an urban race.The "alleycat" bike races are coming to mind. Street racer video game is also coming to mind. Now I'm thinking of videogames, I'm imaging Pac-Man on a city grid. Maze themes. Ehh.

That's it for tonight, or I'm gonna miss my bus.

Specific suggestions on ways to improve the Planning Your First Event page are always welcome, either posted here or emailed.

I can give you my Adwords stats for "city race" vs. "adventure run". Not at all in favor of the former. To the point that I'm considering dropping it as a keyword.

Chenritzo just passed her first initiation rite, congratulations!

Thanks, Neil. That was pretty painless. Hope you made your bus, Blegg.

As the OUSA Board member now in charge of increasing club and OUSA membership, I've been following this thread with much interest. Thanks 7Dot (my fav name for this person) for starting it. There have been some great ideas here. Now, it's time to take these ideas and get them off AP and into local meets.

I'd like to know what everyone is doing to attract members, so keep those cards and letters coming! I just took on this responsibility so I have not done much yet, but there are a few things in the works. More to come....

blegg, I found your photo essay on Briones today. Thanks for creating and sharing it! This is an excellent example of the "answer sheet" that I was referring to in my earlier post here. I actually wasn't imagining anything as meticulously done, because it would probably be too much to ask for on a regular basis.

Thanks chenritzo. It's funny, I never expected that people would enjoy the Briones essay so much.

What I really wanted to do was teach a pre-race training class. The idea would be to teach people exactly what features to look for and what techniques they can use on each leg, and to create a small pamphlet to help them through the course. But I couldn't convince any meet directors to let me do it! (They wanted to keep the courses entirely secret.) So while I was waiting for someone to collaborate with on that idea, I decided to test some of the concepts and make this race review.

But I am surprised by how many people liked it. It makes me think that posting a simple answer sheet like chenritzo describes would be popular. I would post it right next to the refreshments table and results board. To create a gathering point for post race socialization.

While I'm not exactly a newcomer (started when I was a tyke, stopped around age 20, restarted 20 years later), I have to admit there is something that could have been of great use to me as a beginner: a few photographic examples of each type of terrain feature. It's only this year that I started having a grasp of what exactly IS a re-entrant... but if I had seen it pointed out to me, or shown a photograph similar to blegg's excellent photo-essay, I might have caught on a lot faster. Same with the difference between a knoll and a hill, or things like that. Obviously it can't be exhaustive, and the fun of running on a new terrain is figuring out the equivalents, but a baseline could be nice for those not used to going in the woods.... maybe?

Whatever happened to people going round a course with someone else (peers or master/apprentice)? Doesn't require a camera, editing skills, access to internet. What's more its interactive.

^ Great training concept. Used it many times and I'm sure I'll use it again. These approaches are not exclusive.