Discussion: AWT with fewer than 3 finishers in a class
in: Orienteering; General
Jan 22, 2012 9:20 PM
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I apologize if this has been discussed before and I haven't been able to find it.
Here are the rules for Interscholastics scoring:
K.7.2.1 For each interscholastic class, define AWT (the average winning time) as the average of the times of the top three competitors in that class who are competing in a team category.
K.7.2.2 For each competitor in each class with a valid result, their score is computed as 60*(competitor’s time)/ (AWT for the class).
K.7.2.3 For competitors with an OT, MP, DNF or DSQ result, their score will be the larger of 10+60*(course time limit)/ (AWT for the male class) and 10+60*(course time limit)/ (AWT for the female class) for that team category.
Suppose a class has only one or two finishers? The obvious answer is to simply calculate the AWT from the one or two times, but does that really make sense?
Suppose there is one finisher and they finish in 60 mins. Then they get 60 points. Suppose there is another finisher that finishes in (almost) 180 mins, then the AWT is 120 mins and the first finisher gets 30 points and the second finisher gets 90 points.
Suppose that in the other class that makes up the team there are 30 finishers and the top three finish in 55, 60 and 65 minutes. AWT is 60 mins and their scores are 55, 60 and 65 respectively.
The team score is the sum of the 3 lowest scores. The lowest total score wins.
This scenario could easily play out in Interscholastic Varsity competition where the ISVM (Green) class can have many more runners than the ISVF (Brown) class.
Since the rules do not anticipate fewer than 3 finishers in a class would it make more sense to say that no scores would be awarded in that class, similar to this rule:
C.50.3 Daily ranking points can also be earned by:
f. Completing a course at a Orienteering USA sanctioned class "A" meet that has fewer than five finishers (three for White courses). These courses will not yield statistically significant ranking results so will not count numerically towards a ranking score.
Here are the rules for Interscholastics scoring:
K.7.2.1 For each interscholastic class, define AWT (the average winning time) as the average of the times of the top three competitors in that class who are competing in a team category.
K.7.2.2 For each competitor in each class with a valid result, their score is computed as 60*(competitor’s time)/ (AWT for the class).
K.7.2.3 For competitors with an OT, MP, DNF or DSQ result, their score will be the larger of 10+60*(course time limit)/ (AWT for the male class) and 10+60*(course time limit)/ (AWT for the female class) for that team category.
Suppose a class has only one or two finishers? The obvious answer is to simply calculate the AWT from the one or two times, but does that really make sense?
Suppose there is one finisher and they finish in 60 mins. Then they get 60 points. Suppose there is another finisher that finishes in (almost) 180 mins, then the AWT is 120 mins and the first finisher gets 30 points and the second finisher gets 90 points.
Suppose that in the other class that makes up the team there are 30 finishers and the top three finish in 55, 60 and 65 minutes. AWT is 60 mins and their scores are 55, 60 and 65 respectively.
The team score is the sum of the 3 lowest scores. The lowest total score wins.
This scenario could easily play out in Interscholastic Varsity competition where the ISVM (Green) class can have many more runners than the ISVF (Brown) class.
Since the rules do not anticipate fewer than 3 finishers in a class would it make more sense to say that no scores would be awarded in that class, similar to this rule:
C.50.3 Daily ranking points can also be earned by:
f. Completing a course at a Orienteering USA sanctioned class "A" meet that has fewer than five finishers (three for White courses). These courses will not yield statistically significant ranking results so will not count numerically towards a ranking score.
Jan 23, 2012 7:07 AM
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GuyO:
Right off the bat, I can tell you these are not the current rules: AWT is now to be computed using the top 3 runners in the class, irregardless of whether they are also on teams.
The scenario described above could -- and maybe already has -- happened on the Primary School categories, but there is no offficial team competition for PS (yet). In general, though, it is unlikely to happen in a team category. Therefore, I wouldn't pull hair out over this.
The reason the OUSA rankings need the <5/3 rule is because the process requires convergence of iterative solutions, and is affected by results from other events; I suspect that convergence isn't possible with fields smaller than those minimums. On the other hand, rankings are based on course, and only separated for class, so being under those numbers is not very likely.
The scenario described above could -- and maybe already has -- happened on the Primary School categories, but there is no offficial team competition for PS (yet). In general, though, it is unlikely to happen in a team category. Therefore, I wouldn't pull hair out over this.
The reason the OUSA rankings need the <5/3 rule is because the process requires convergence of iterative solutions, and is affected by results from other events; I suspect that convergence isn't possible with fields smaller than those minimums. On the other hand, rankings are based on course, and only separated for class, so being under those numbers is not very likely.
Jan 23, 2012 1:20 PM
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Well, it has happened. At the SEIS we had only 2 finishers on ISVF and 23 on ISVM.
It happens for the rankings, too. Happened on Blue at the last GNC. Arguably an important class!
It happens for the rankings, too. Happened on Blue at the last GNC. Arguably an important class!
Jan 23, 2012 3:08 PM
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Silly me. The new rule is not on the website, but it is in the PDF. (Where have you heard that one before, GuyO?)
K.7.2.1 For each interscholastic class, define AWT (the average winning time) as the average of the times of the top three individual or team U.S. Championship-eligible competitors in that class. In the event that there are fewer than three eligible competitors with a valid time in any interscholastic class, the AWT shall be calculated as the average of the times of all eligible competitors with a valid time.
K.7.2.1 For each interscholastic class, define AWT (the average winning time) as the average of the times of the top three individual or team U.S. Championship-eligible competitors in that class. In the event that there are fewer than three eligible competitors with a valid time in any interscholastic class, the AWT shall be calculated as the average of the times of all eligible competitors with a valid time.
Jan 23, 2012 6:00 PM
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Sorry--many changes were made in the rules and this was overlooked. Go by the PDF until I can get the webpage fixed.
This discussion thread is closed.