Discussion: how to keep concentration?

in: Orienteering; Training & Technique;

# Posted 2007-03-30 12:55:53

I have a problem. I'm not elite but would like to perform better. I know it's funny, but when running, sometimes I begin singing (stupid song of course)...and that's a problem! How can I keep concentration on the race? what exercise can I do? I'm thinking about having a sort of "checklist" to respect for every control, so that I don't have time to get my mind lost. with checklist I mean: before one control already checking for next control track, direction, etc, in order to make death time useful.and not having time to begin thinking to something else and...singing... I sometimes am concentrated and can do this good, sometimes it's a disaster...could "being more mechanic" be a solution?

# Posted 2007-03-30 14:15:39

bubo:

sometimes I begin singing (stupid song of course)...
You´re not alone out there! I think it´s a common problem and I´ve even seen someone (I don´t remember who it was) logging this on Attackpoint as 'song in my head' :)
Your solutions "being more mechanic" and "having a checklist" are definitely part of the more 'technical' solution.
The checklist part probably should then also include checking/knowing where you are all (most of) the time - thus making it possible to fill all your time with important things and not let your mind stray too much...
Another obvious aspect is the 'truly mental' side of concentration that can probably be improved with some kind of mental training, but that is something I don´t know much about.

# Posted 2007-03-30 15:01:48

chitownclark:

While familiarity may breed contempt...it also breeds concentration and success I believe. Hence the value of training.

Last week at the 3-day Flying Pig meet, I found I was concentrating much better by Sunday, and could successfully make much more aggressive, risky route choices.

Does anyone else purposely step-up their game on the final day of a meet, knowing that they'll be able to concentrate better?

# Posted 2007-03-30 15:44:38

randy:

but when running, sometimes I begin singing (stupid song of course)...and that's a problem!

IMHO, singing during a race is a good thing. I swear by it. Forgetting any other possible benefits, it provides a rhythm for those of us who don't pace count or use a wristwatch for that function. I believe (very speculatively, of course), that music is either an outgrowth or contributer to a natural internal timekeeping system, that, by design (intelligent or otherwise :-)) specifically is separate from other mental processes and does not compromise concentration.

As to the question of concentration -- get a simple mantra, and when you notice your mind wandering, invoke the mantra. Mine is the very boring "wrong thought". I just say that when my mind is thinking about other stuff and that gets me back on track. Other people look at their compass, whatever. This has become a habit and I think it is valuable, but I also think it is unrelated to singing.

Back to singing and mental function, there is antecdotal evidence that singing improves cognitive function for those with Alzheimer's-related dementia, and very speculative discussion that "Singing may also help activate your right-brain more fully when you are working on a problem involving spatial reasoning."

(I was too lazy to look beyond the first page of google results for actual science on this, but I'm sure its out there, either confirming or debunking the benefits of singing thesis. In any case, I hope at least the second paragraph of my comments was helpful :-))

# Posted 2007-03-30 16:48:41
bubo:	music is either an outgrowth or contributer to a natural internal timekeeping system If you don´t have a watch, then maybe you can sing that song or verse that you know takes exactly 2 minutes to sing - and consequently takes you (for example) 250 metres - and use it as a means of pace counting ;)

# Posted 2007-03-30 17:02:06

jjcote:

It's not a matter of keeping music out of your head, it's a matter of controlling your playlist. Pick a piece of music that has a good tempo for running, and make that be the music in your head. I have a couple of pieces that I summon up when I want to concentrate, both of which are instrumentals. Maybe it's better to not have lyrics. What do you want as the soundtrack for your run?

On the other hand, I'm not exactly the king of concentration and focus, so maybe you should think twice before considering advice from me.

# Posted 2007-03-30 17:44:31
j-man:	I know some very good orienteers who are vehemently against having songs in your head. As a result, I've tried to squelch them myself.

# Posted 2007-03-30 18:05:17

LeeVice:

the problem with music then is that you lower your running level if the song hasn't enough ritm. one idea is having a HR measurer and run at a certain rate (e.g 175 or so dependingo on your measurements) so that you keep maximum level of performance. that helps you also concentrating on your HR, interrupts the "song" and could help concentrating on the track. on the other hand running 175 or so is very hard, and music helps you not to think at the pain you're having...however think singing is better in sports, as running races or cycling, where others make the ritm...

# Posted 2007-03-30 20:22:16
vyc:	"What do you want as the soundtrack for your run?" personally I can't choose the song, it just comes into my head automatically.. sometimes it changes with the pace.. If I get tired, more aggressive song begins to play.. :D And I think it helps to keep up the tempo and a good mood. Not sure about orienteering..

# Posted 2007-03-30 21:21:13
Sergey:	If you run fast enough - you don't have time for a song in your head.You would barely have time to verify your location on a map. Just increase your speed in woods :)

# Posted 2007-03-30 21:25:32
jjcote:	Of course, running so fast that you can't think kind of defeats the purpose...

# Posted 2007-03-30 21:43:17

stevegregg:

When running on a treadmill, I work on maintaining quick leg turnover. 180 footstrikes per minute is generally considered to be optimal running cadence on the road. So I like to have music playing at exactly this tempo during a treadmill workout, to help me maintain this cadence.

The best song I have found so far for this purpose? "Kickstart My Heart" by Motley Crue. An almost perfect 3 beats per second!

# Posted 2007-03-31 14:51:09

chitownclark:

I just discovered a new hi-tech solution to finding appropriate running and exercising music...podcasts.

For those who have iPods, and have become addicted to podcasts, the iTunes Music Store has a set of podcasts called PodRunner mixed by djSteveBoy in LA. These are cataloged by their beats-per-minute pace...from 130 BPM all the way up to something called Velociraptor, at 181 BPM, all over an hour long. While free to download, djSteveBoy encourages you to buy PodRunner t-shirts from his website where you can also download MP3 files of the same music.

# Posted 2007-03-31 19:03:25

khall:

Okay, if anyone gets this far down in the discussion ...
To concentrate better, you need to train concentration. If you don't train in the woods with a map, the next best thing is to train on trails with a map, or even on roads with a map. There are lots of variations on what you can do (visualizing, route choice, spotting potential errors, planning, etc.) - but the key is to force yourself/train yourself to look at the map a lot. I'm pretty sure that Ted deStCroix said in one of the (older) training books that he looked at his map about 6-10 times a minute!

So get an orienteering map with a course marked on it, decide what you are going to focus on, and look at the map every 10-20 paces. For your whole run. Use quick glances (and thumb), because in the woods you don't get to stare at the map in the same way you can during a road run, or in an armchair.

Most runners are used to letting their minds wander as they run, and I admit to finding training with a map very difficult some days. But I also admit that when I trained with a map consistently 3 times a week, my concentration was significantly better, and I could maintain it for a whole course.

The checklist and mantra are also good. I have a checklist for planning routes, and another checklist for error recovery/relocating.

Good luck!

# Posted 2007-03-31 22:03:17

Tundra/Desert:

If you believe Jack Daniels, there shouldn't be much use for the 130–160 bpm range. Orienteers in particular tend to have long, infrequent strides (adaptaton from jumping around obstacles), which disfavors them on the road. I won't get into the discussion of what the "proper" running technique for the woods is, I'll only note that athletes trained in proper road/track running technique also tend to do well off-trail.

# Posted 2007-04-02 20:35:20
Ricka:	I wonder if there's any correlation between 'music in training' and 'song stuck in head'. Personally, I listen to music on the radio 'quite a bit' but admit I don't "know" many songs. And I've never used music while running or on teadmill. In orienteering, I've never had the 'songs in head' problem. (My mind drifts anyway :) )

# Posted 2007-04-02 20:55:24

ebuckley:

When I was training with the US Cycling Team, we were strongly discouraged from playing songs in our heads during hard efforts, particularly Time Trials. The idea was that if you started thinking about a song and not what you were doing, your sub-concious would try to slow you down since cranking at VO2max for an hour is a pretty unnatural thing to do. My best results came when I was thinking about nothing other than the effort and technique.

Of course, in orienteering, you don't go anywhere near that intensity (except maybe on an uphill or in a sprint). Therefore, the song doesn't interfere with your effort and may, as some have noted, help keep your tempo where it should be (though I rather doubt that - more likely your brain will adjust the song tempo to match your stride). I'd still say that my best results come when I don't have anything else going on in my head, but if you have to expend more concentration to get rid of the song than you would just to let it play, you might as well let your brain sing along.

# Posted 2007-04-02 21:32:44
JanetT:	"Climb Every Mountain" was the first song I remember getting stuck in my head while orienteering (just wanted to pass that along so it gets stuck in other people's heads instead...).

# Posted 2007-04-03 11:20:11
mindsweeper:	An introductory Jedi class goes a long way. (Although they require a decent midi-chlorian count to enter.)

# Posted 2007-04-03 16:57:20

Hammer:

Get the songs out of your head because if you don't then you aren't focussing 100% on the map, your direction, your surroundings, your body, your plan, your pace, etc. There is too much in a race to think about to be distracting your mind by singing.

Analyze your races to determine when a song or other thoughts of work, family, etc. creep in (for me it occurs on long boring legs). When you realize when it is starting then use a keyword to get you to focus. Like "MAP" or "FOCUS". Concentrate on the map again. Concentrate on your pace and body again.

# Posted 2007-04-03 18:22:25
jtorranc:	Can anyone confirm for me - hasn't Holger Hott Johansen admitted to sometimes letting a song run through his head during long trail running legs? Presumably he's able to banish it when it's time to be focused again, which clearly isn't a skill all of us are blessed with.

# Posted 2007-04-03 20:38:49
Sergey:	"Banish the song training" should be added to the AP list.

# Posted 2007-04-03 20:52:07

jfredrickson:

I remember Holger talking about the importance of being able to tune out on long boring legs and let the mind rest. He said that a good long course should have more running on it then you will need to memorize the entire course, so there should come a point where you can just put your map down and run for a while and then pull yourself back into focus at a certain point.

I always thought that that should be avoided because it's so hard to pull yourself back into focus once you have lost it, but perhaps if you can train yourself to do that you can actually benefit from the mental break.

# Posted 2007-04-03 20:54:50
Jagge:	I can't sing. Good for me!

# Posted 2007-04-03 22:16:15
z-man:	I get more distracted by exessively boring legs than a song spinning in my mind. I would vote for "Banish boring courses" instead :)

# Posted 2007-04-04 02:16:50
jfredrickson:	Just banish the whole long discipline :) At least banish back-to-back longs.

# Posted 2007-04-04 03:35:50
Hammer:	Holger mentioned that when he started to find his mind wandering on the long legs he focussed on running technique instead.

# Posted 2007-04-04 03:52:52

ebuckley:

I don't really have a problem with my mind wandering on long O-legs, but on a typical AR leg (often over 1 hour long), I really have to fight to stay focused. It's very possible to make a huge mistake on a relatively simple leg by losing track of where you are in the leg and making a parallel error. I understand needing to let the mind rest a bit, but turning it off completely sounds like a really bad idea. (I don't think that's what Holger was advocating, but his comments could be taken that way).

# Posted 2007-04-04 07:31:45

GregBalter:

Holger has being orienteering since childhood, he can do things I would not recommend to try for an average orienteer, unless you practice map memory for years. A simple test if you can do staff like that is to try to visualize an entire course (in all details) two-three day after the race without looking at the map ones. There are coaches who push this skill in kids and there elite coaches who do not think it is necessary - just look at the map as often, as it is needed.

# Posted 2007-04-04 07:37:36

Hammer:

I don't think John's take on Holgers comments are correct. I am pretty certain he said that it is hard to stay focussed on long an easy legs so when he feels his mind starting to wander he said that is when you think about running technique and fresh legs etc. So he is still staying focussed and keeping the mind thinking about the race.

A good way to stay focussed on long and easy legs is to use that time to plan ahead and examine those short and technically tougher legs (where most races are won and lost).

# Posted 2007-04-04 07:53:40
jtorranc:	My memory is vague - I think it was probably something I read in Spike's blog. Maybe I'll search his archives in the morning and see if I can find what I actually read.

# Posted 2007-04-04 16:40:50
Adam:	A few months ago ONA had an article on this, and it said a good way to regain concentration was to ask yourself where you are, or what you are going to be seeing next, or anything to get your mind back on orienteering.

# Posted 2007-04-04 18:39:22
vyc:	"A good way to stay focussed on long and easy legs is to use that time to plan ahead and examine those short and technically tougher legs.." I always try to do that. Sometimes it works, sometimes not.. If I'm too tired, I just let things 'flow' and this causes mistakes afterwards of course.. I guess I give some rest (involuntarily) to my mind and can't switch on at the right time..

# Posted 2007-04-05 22:02:18
DHemer:	i sing the same song over and over again during any form of running, not a form of concerntration but more of a isolation technique to keep my mind off other factors, like pain. Not ideal for orienteering but i do this subconciously but it allows me to focus on the map and terrain rather than a sore leg.

# Posted 2007-04-06 00:01:55

ebone:

I usually don't have songs in my head very much when I race, but when I do, I've never observed it to adversely affect my performance. Perhaps it uses a brain functionality that is non-overlapping with navigation. Or maybe (as DHemer suggests) the song keeps out other, more distracting mental digressions, like reflecting on the past or speculating about the future or engaging in ego-involved fantasy scenarios: "So and so has been getting on my nerves, but how would s/he like it if I told him/her what I think about that?" That kind of emotionally indulgent thinking is not particularly useful in normal life, but it can be poisonous on an O course. Fortunately, I've gotten very good at noticing when I'm engaging in this kind of thinking and shifting focus to what I'm doing, instead.

# Posted 2007-04-06 01:53:06
vyc:	today I had quite successful O race and didn't have any songs in my head :) I used couple ideas from this thread and also other factors were effective.. My conclusion: you shouldn't hear any songs in order to be successful in O..

# Posted 2007-04-06 07:13:53

ebuckley:

i sing the same song over and over again during any form of running, not a form of concerntration but more of a isolation technique to keep my mind off other factors, like pain.

This is exactly what Eddie B. was telling us not to do. The problem is that if you don't concentrate on the pain, your subconscious takes over monitoring it. Since the subconscious is pre-programmed to view pain as a bad thing, it backs off the effort. Only by focusing on the pain can you keep your effort exactly where you want it to be.

Pain should be viewed as your body's tachometer. It tells you when you're going too hard, and you need to know what that feels like and respond appropriately. It also tells you when you're not going hard enough. Don't expect your subconscious to fix the latter problem.

# Posted 2007-04-06 18:04:14

DHemer:

ok i see what you mean but i was not talking about pain such as a sore knee due to a long recuring injury or existing problem.
Unfortunatly i have been unfortunate in that i come back bleeding almost every race.
Barbed wire,thorns, rocks ect.
It helps with this, sum of the time.
I am not suggesting u should ignore pain but rather understand when it is a bad thing.

This all failing i most probably sing a song because like most orienteers i am not completely normal ;)

# Posted 2007-04-06 18:29:12
Boojums:	I believe that the pain that others are talking about is pure running pain - the "this hurts like hell all over" feeling that you get when you push hard. If you're trying to kythe out pain from scratches and bumps, you're probably going to be backing off of the running pain, too.

# Posted 2007-04-07 03:25:02
Nikolay:	I think too, that the pain Eric and the others talk about is the well known burning feeling in your quads, hamstrings, calves etc.... when you push yourself hard. Brrrrrrrr. Just got goose bumps thinking about it. I am not sure why but I felt really strong desire to go out for a really really hard interval training.

# Posted 2007-04-07 19:27:39
LeeVice:	ahah, we're all masochists...the more your muscle hurt, the best it is :P This should be added to "you are an orienteer when" discussion on the forum...ihih I'm gonna train..too strong desire too.. ps. of course pain has to be detected, and if not "normal" you should be really careful...already had some soft injuries because of that and it's not funny..

# Posted 2007-04-07 20:51:16
DHemer:	OK ...im not the type to run just cause i think of a buring pain in the quads...oh second thought were is that beer But cuts and bruises are not two bad

# Posted 2007-04-07 21:54:35
vyc:	I like bruises.. they help me run faster :D

# Posted 2007-04-08 00:31:05

upnorthguy:

Here's a suggestion:
Try talking out loud as you orienteer; verbalising out loud the things going through your head and the things that should be going through your head. Talk about what's coming up, what you should be noticing, what techniques you are going to use, what you are going to do, what things you need to be careful about etc.
I think this has 3 benefits:
1) The very sound of your voice will 'literally' act as a kind of barrier to keep out extraneous thoughts and will help prevent your mind from wandering (to songs, your job, what you want to eat for dinner etc.) It's as if the very sound 'takes up space'; or maybe its just because your mind is so busy dealing with the act of listening so the thoughts have a harder time sneaking in.
2) Saying the (correct) things out loud will help you to do the right thing; as it will have a stronger impact, again simply because of the physical sound having more impact than a 'quiet' thought that is only in your head. For example - you may have a bit of a quiet feeling somewhere in the back of your mind that "in this area of the map I better be careful not to make a parallel error and head down the wrong ridge...." But if you actually verbalize that out loud - warning yourself with actual words, it will have a greater impact and you will be more likely to do the right thing.
3) I guess this is kind of similar to my number 1, but if you get in the habit of doing this, then if your mind does start to wander, the absence of your voice may trigger you getting back to concentrating quicker. That is - it wll be more obvious to you that you are not concentrating.

# Posted 2007-04-08 07:25:32
ebuckley:	I say things like "dammit!" and "crap!" (and a few less polite) out loud all the time when I'm navigating.

# Posted 2007-04-08 19:21:21
chitownclark:	Sounds like my senile old grandmother, doddering around in her crowded room at the Home.

# Posted 2007-04-08 23:48:58
jjcote:	You've still got a grandmother?!

# Posted 2007-04-09 20:42:14
Sergey:	If the one is able to "verbalise" during a race - the one is not running fast enough :)

# Posted 2007-04-09 22:59:27
DHemer:	I must admit to a few choice words on occasion after making a big mistake or out of complete frustration. I do like the idea of talking through ur choices, but not out load, if u can speak u r not running fast enough

# Posted 2007-04-10 16:34:00
ebuckley:	Perhaps, but speaking is a pretty basic function. We're not talking yelling or singing, just speaking. If you can't do that, you're probably running too hard to think clearly.

# Posted 2007-04-10 21:04:32
Sergey:	This is the mastery of O - not being able to speak but still be able to think (at least partially) :) It is hard to speak at 5:00/mile (3:08/km for Europeans) pace, indeed.

# Posted 2007-04-11 05:54:40
ebuckley:	Give me a break Sergey. Nobody runs through the woods at 3:08/K.

# Posted 2007-04-11 06:25:44
upnorthguy:	I would draw your attention back to the original post; which was "I am not elite, but would like to perform better". Certainly I would not expect to see Holger H-J running through the woods at top speed talking out loud to himself - but some variation of my suggestion might help a large number of 'competitive' North American orienteers to improve their focus and concentration.

# Posted 2007-04-11 22:11:15
Sergey:	Eric, top world elite does. Top NA elite runs more like at 6:00/mile (3:45/km for our European counterparts). I have to admit that use periodically one or two selected words in woods. Which tells me that I am not running fast enough :)

# Posted 2007-04-11 22:25:59
jtorranc:	Must be blazing fast terrain Sergey has in mind - recalling various reports of time trials people have run, I don't think most of the world elite can go all that much under 3 minutes per kilometer even in a three kilometer time trial on a track.

# Posted 2007-04-12 03:11:18

EricW:

With some qualifications, I'll defend Sergey's pace claims. No, nobody runs this fast in conventional O terms, in the forest, in "straight line" kilometers. However, as generalities, these times are right on target in terms of equivalent effort (HR @ race/threshold pace), and the pace that is actually run on firm, flat surfaces, during an O race, measured in terms of real distance covered. I'll support anything that reminds American orienteers that orienteering is indeed a running sport, and they should train accordingly (the physical part).

# Posted 2007-04-12 10:25:43

ebuckley:

Not quite. Check the HR graphs that are frequently posted on the blogs of the elite. They show effort in the 85-90% range. A world class runner competing in a half marathon (winning time around 1 hour) would be more like 95% (perhaps a bit less if it was a "tactical" race), rising to nearly 100% over the last 10 minutes. That is very much the difference between being able to talk and being blinded by effort.

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