Discussion: Middle/Classic vs. Classic/Middle

LAOC has received sanctioning for an A-meet this October with one day of Middle and one day of Classic. There has been some debate as to which should be on Saturday and which on Sunday. It seems more common for the Middle to be the first day, but some club members have suggested that having the Middle on Sunday would allow people to hit the road sooner. (The venue is pretty far from LAX so this might make a difference). What is the Attackpoint opinion on this?

I have seen both versions and have no problem with either one. I suppose the logic can work both ways: you can either have the middle later in the day on Saturday so people can make it on time, or earlier in the day on Sunday so people can leave sooner. Seems about equal to me.

From a runner's perspective, it doesn't make much sense to have the more physically taxing event first.

Would not matter to me; as long as you start at a reasonable time on the Sunday - 09:00 or 10:00. I normally try to not fly out on a Sunday till after 18:00 (if possible) just to provide lots of time.

Of more concern to me is a kind of trend where we seem to be having both a Middle and a Sprint on the Saturday. The 2006 Canadian Team Trials were that way, as were the 2006 COC, and the upcoming 2007 Canadian Team Trials.

Position in the start window is more of a factor than race distance at most events (unless you are way off the winning time). I like having the shorter event first, but I wouldn't skip an event just because they did it differently.

Since Los Angeles is so far from the "O-Zone," for most US orienteers transportation time and expense becomes a real consideration.

The question I would ask is what else can you offer to make all that travel worthwhile? A Friday afternoon Sprint or Middle event would be feasible without too much additional work, since you're probably already staffing for packet pick-up and perhaps a model course.

And for one Chicago October A-meet, we made use of the Columbus Day holiday on Monday and presented a Long-O which was well attended.

If we must have sprints, let them be on the same day as the middle. Otherwise two days are wasted rather than just one.

Oh, stop it, Will! I forget, who was it who planned the original Sprint Series Finals courses at Pawtuckaway?

:P

Actually, I rather like the afternoon sprint after a middle course. Recovery between the two events hasn't been an issue. My best sprints have all been the second race of the day. That said, from a meet director's standpoint, it's a lot more work, especially if multiple venues are involved.

Hmmm... I wasn't previously aware feet considered middle a waste of time. Or am I misinterpreting that somehow?

More seriously, the thing I like about the sprint finals is that there are many sprints in one day. (3 each time at both of the first two editions). Whereas the stand-alone A-meet sprint days we are starting to see now just don't interest me at all. (eg team trials). I recognize that plenty of others disagree with this, but I have a right to my opinion.

I also rather like the middle+sprint/long two-day format.

I am quite concerned about the Middle/Sprint being on the same day. There are a couple of factors involved:

Areas - Holding the events on the same day seems to lead to compromises over areas, especially for the sprint as you have to use an area close to that used for the middle, even if it not particularly suitable for that event. IOF guidelines state that the sprint terrain should be "Predominantly in very runnable park or urban (streets/buildings) terrain. Some fast runnable forest may be included." This terrain is often not available close to a good middle distance area. This was the case at last year's Canadian Team Trials.

Recovery time - I'm not sure what that the minimum shuold be, but I did not feel sufficiently recovered after the middle at the event that included last year's Canadian Team Trials.

Profile - The format seems to give the Sprint a lower profile. It risks being a 'fun' event tacked on as an afterthought.

Just my thoughts.........

Holding the events on the same day seems to lead to compromises over areas, especially for the sprint as you have to use an area close to that used for the middle, even if it not particularly suitable for that event.

That's why I said it's more work the for the meet director. I don't think the areas should be compromised. I the events half to be 10 miles apart (or more), so be it. Organizationally, it's like running two completely independed events on the same day.

BTW, if organizers are looking to just tack on a fun sprint rather than hold a serious competition, I have no problem with that. I do agree with Jon that if it's going to be a real part of an A-meet which counts in the rankings, it should get the same attention to quality as the other events.

We did this for Intercollegiates a couple years ago. The afternoon relay (which was just over sprint distance for each leg) was set in an urban park, 15 miles from the morning middle course. The competitors seemed to like this quite a bit, but it was a looong day for me.

If there is such a thing as a "Sprint O" specialist they are not going to perform at their best if they have to do a middle distance race in the morning. That is if "Sprint" or technically "Short" has any validity as a discipline.

If there is such a thing as a "Sprint O" specialist...

...he/she shouldn't run the middle in the morning...
And if you focus on middle & long you shouldn´t run the sprint.

I´d say this goes for Elite runners wanting to perform at a high level. You have to make a choice! This means that selection races and other important events really shouldn´t be set up this way.

Let the 'recreational' (but still competitive!) orienteer run as much as he/she wants, but let the Elite prepare for their events the best way possible without having to make too many difficult choices.

Sprint qualifications and Finals the same day are OK though, since that´s the international format, but don´t mix it with middle in the same day.

Back to the original question of middle/classic versus classic/middle, having just run a killer classic on Saturday followed by a middle on Sunday, I'd say I prefer it the other way around.