Discussion: How the sport should be

Good to see people pioneering different techniques. Bring on the digital future so we can all enjoy more time in the bush (or staring at a screen afterwards) rather than sitting at tables completing paperwork

The real challenge is to make the system simple. I can see this becoming standard for SS type events. For local events even having to run a computer is challenging for some.

I think at least the registration system needs to become standard for state event because it is seriously a 2 minute job to set that up. It just works.

As for Bendigo event, I think it could quite possibly be done there as well. The process of setting up a basic event with no set start times in OE2010 is simple as well. what will help the process is using the same 2 computers/tablets, this way the archive and cousre/class data files are all in the same place. so when you import them into OE you won't need to locate them in the file directory cause it will be like a default setting. I think it would about 10mins to the job before hand but save that time later in the processing of results as the file is in OE ready to export.

if the was half a dozen to a dozen people that knew how to do it I think it could be done. cause all you need to get off the course setter is the condes file. Which if jim is the printer he will have them.

As for a screen I would just us a 24inch computer screen and turn around vertically and run results out of the built in OE feature. O-lynx could be used but for basic local event would just add another step that many may not be about to deal with, There is probably only another 10minutes work to set it up though for straight results no radio's.

I would think it all would run of a inverter. or maybe put a solar panel and couple of batteries in the trailer.

the dip-tap registration gets my vote. I'm sure the people at SS events would still find a way to make us queue for 10 minutes though...

I love the rego system used! If we could just adopt that it would be fantastic!

Having that form of registration has two advantages and one disadvantage. It works through the OE event software. The obvious advantage is easy registration. The less obvious advantage but the bigger one is the simplification of post-event work - rseults, routegadget, eventor upload all become almost trivial. SIME processing is not trivial. The disadvantage is the need for a computer (and power supply) and for courses to be loaded into OE beforehand. OE and dip entry would be my preference every time as an event organiser. SIME is a pain in the arse post-event. But not every organiser is going to like having to load event data into OE. The obvious outcome is that those people who have been processing SIME post event will instead be helping with pre-event set up. I think I'd prefer helping pre-event and having the post-event ease of OE.

Power supply isn't really a issue. Both computers yesterday could run for 5 hrs (tablet 8 hrs) on there batteries. We had a generator for the display screen, so we had the main computer connected, just cos we could.

At most Bendigo events, the plan would be not to have a display, and if we did, it could be smaller, and run easily of a inverter

I have run a number of orientshows with a computer, car starter battery and inverter. Even that seems overkill. But it gives peace of mind.

Just trying to get a handle on this for potential use over here in the West. I can sort of follow where you are going, but completely fail to understand why you would be using SIME when you obviously have an OE license.

Bendigo has been using SIME since the club got SI gear. The reasons for it was: Bendigo club events are run by one person, a large number if not most wouldn't have the faintest idea of how to open OE let alone set up a event and use it, there then is the problem of entering people into OE on a enter on the day system that the club has used for ever, along with these there is the power issue, which obviously isn't as bad these days with longer life batteries in laptops. So in other words SIME was used to keep things simple.

Over the years SIME has been good but has always been a pain to get results. so now that Phillip Herries has done such a good job with O-lynx touch and made a simple entry system into OE, it is worth thinking about using OE as it the ten extra minutes before will save a lot of time afterwards extracting results.

What Toph said.

What Toph said.

Simmo, if you would like Phillip Herries from O-lynx has now put up a download link to the trial software on his blog. so you can try it for yourself.

Thanks Toph!

That looks like a very good system - and being (what I can glean from the comments and the photos) relatively simple gets 5-stars from most organiser types... great initiative.

Jim suggested I have a look at AP for this new initiative (first visit to AP for some time). Interesting stuff and I would like a closer look some time.

We (well Debbie and I) ran SS SI yesterday using what I called "SI simple" which was actually a rip-off of Neil's Orientshow type set up viz:
1 Long life battery notebook with OE2010 preloaded from Eventor/Condes
2 Epson receipt printer to print splits and results (yes, results can easily be printed on a splits printer) powered by car starter battery and 300w inverter

No other gear needed (no use of OV SI gear or trailer to tow). Worked a charm. As an experienced operator I was able to run Entries (EOD), download and results screens simultaneously. (OE2010 will allow entries to be updated whilst downloads are running and I also printed course results between competitor download splits tickets.) 150+ runners used 57% of the notebook battery and the starter battery was still reading 12+v after nearly 200 printouts.
Results printouts were pinned on a notice board. I could have used a PC screen etc but wanted to go as minimal as possible. Bush committee are reviewing initiatives to permanently simplify SS events. The success of MelBushO (like BG local events) has brought this simplification issue to a head I think.
For the MelBushO events we are using the SIME hardware but have sort of given up with the TakSoft post-event stuff and just use Excel to do results by copying the times competitors have put on the slips on the magnetic board used for results (again same as BG local events). We don't code check so you can cheat if you want.

My understanding (as OV SI coordinator) is that BG has the gear to run SI without OV gear. DR and BK now have sufficient gear between them to do likewise (as we did yesterday). EU and YV are both moving down that path also. Unfortunately the older OV laptops do not have batteries capable of anything like this but will still be important for carnivals etc.

The forthcoming Sprint Series will also be run in a similar way to yesterday/MelBushO events but I think I will be using Or as it handles the front end better than OE and the back end better than TakSoft/SIME.

My main concern going forward is the issue of creating/maintaining some form of (central?) archive of runners. Will Eventor be the answer to this? Should we have an archive downloadable from the OV website (what format?). Should we have a different one for each series (eg a BG local archive, a SS archive, a MTBO archive, MelBushO archive?) I can see a few options but none leaping out yet as the best answer. And we still have no way to cope with runners who own multiple SI sticks and/or swap them around the family. The archive/database is the key behind any simple registration system. Finally the new tablet/smartphone tech will also change how we do things in the future (notebook PCs may become redundant).

I think Eventor is the answer to the database, it is the only logical option as it holds everyone in australia, or even the world. And XML would be my format of choice. I no longer use csv to upload splits to winsplit/splitsbrowser. why cause with xml there is only one format and it can be uploaded to everything that is of any use for results... such as eventor and winsplits and plenty more.

As for database stuff. I had started a Bendigo database of OE off old events (bendigo 2day, easter and manually entered some regulars) for last weekends event. But since have rethought this. Jimbo told me today that I could get a list of all people on Eventor in xml format and he thought we should use that as our start of our Bendigo archive. so with in 10minute of downloading the xml file (which has 3500 people in it, ie. just about everyone in orienteering in australia). I had then updated the database with OE using the Bendigo 2day event file and last weekends event. I only had to add about 15 people in total to add using the "update archive" feature of OE. So I think the plan is to have this database as our starting point now and I haven't passed on the one that I made before leon and myselfs event last weeekend.

I'm not sure what others think but I have only really played with OE for this last event and I have found it real quite easy to use and think there is no real need to move away from the norm for enter on the day event. Give us a condes file and use the 'course/class' file that I created for last weekend and a bendigo event would be set up in 10mins max, and that includes connecting o-lynx touch(which seriously only takes 1min. I can imagine though that when you have to do start list, and other classes things could get a bit harder.

I don't know much about Or and have only briefly looked at their webpage but I couldn't see anywhere where it said it deals with xml. csv's i've decided are a pain in the bum, and html have limited places they can be uploaded. On another note if it does handle the front end stuff better than OE, that wouldn't be too hard, But I would be super surprised if it did it better than O-lynx touch.

O-lynx touch, in my opinion is flipping amazingly easy to use. And on top of that it just works. I think I have said more already in this discussion above somewhere. But it is intuitive. Its display is simple, and in a format similar to what you would see on any app made for a smart phone, which means people don't have to ask questions. They just use their brain to follow the steps and before they even realise it they are entered. They then look at the screen in surprise wondering whether there is anything else to do so they asked the question last weekend and we replied, 'yes hand over your money and we will give you your map'

Thats just my two cents worth on the whole thing.

as for the si stick dilema. when they pre-enter with eventor, they are already entered with a stick. so charge them money if they want to change that on the day.

for enter on the day o-lynx touch allows the si number to be change, or the person will just have to type their name if its not in the database.

families can be told to run with the same stick... charging for changes could easily help them be more organised. or at enter on the day events that people register off the database such as O-lynx touch, they will have the inconvenience of changing names.

and aside from that is there any harm in having 2 entries for the same person in the database with different stick numbers?

I think Toph just joined the SI (experts) committee.

Trust me I still have got a heck of a lot to learn cause I have never done start list, networked computers or any of the other things for the major events

Toph just joined the unusual people category. Anyone who thinks the OE interface is easy is unusual. ;-)

Long life batteries can possibly be sourced for the OE laptops. They are not manufacturer issue but I use a battery with more than double the mAh available from the original manufacturer's long life models. And what is wrong with changing batteries during the event anyway?

In the orientshow set up I used a OEM battery with doubled the original capacity and kept the original as a spare. Found it was simpler to use one computer battery and one external battery and inverter. I always feel uneasy at the thought of an unscheduled power down. It was one less thing to think about. Thats always an issue with one person running an event like the orientshow.