Discussion: WOC Middle

Running for Team USA tomorrow are Ross, Kseniya, and Sam.

Start times:
Ross 12:16
Kseniya 15:10
Sam 15:26

This are Swedish local. Boston is six hours earlier.

WOC Live Center: http://live.woc2016.se/blog/category/woc-middle-wt...

Looking forward to it!

And for the Canadians

Eric Kemp 11:44
Louise Oram 15:30
Emily Kemp 16:42

And best ever results for these countries as of 22 August 2016?

Top 70.

Women:
AUS - 13th ('05 & '07)
CAN - 9th ('05)
GBR - 1st ('99)
IRL - 41st ('11)
NZL - 16th ('05)
USA - 29th ('13)

Men:
AUS - 17th ('04)
CAN - 41st ('91)
GBR - 3rd ('06)
IRL - 36th ('01)
NZL - 21st ('10)
USA - 44th ('03)

What about Barbados?

DNS

Good luck everyone!!

Now that we're in to the forest races, could somebody who knows explain how the start quota system works, and how the various countries of interest are doing based on last year's positions?

Thanks!

Thanks for the reminder that I've got a job to do on the plane over to Sweden (namely set the national rankings list up to handle this year).

Divisions are determined by results from WOC 2014 and 2015 - the lowest two countries in division 2 after 2015 were replaced by the two highest ranked in division 3 (similarly for the division 1/2 swap but only one country up/one down). Also, division 2 countries only count their best runner from two years ago in each race, and division 1 countries their best 2.

Haven't gone through everything yet, but the points being carried forward by the leading division 3 countries are:

Men: BEL 77, AUS 61, IRL 61, SVK 46, POR 36. Looks like a three-way fight for two promotion spots (no Michiels makes it harder for the Belgians).

Women: IRL 53, ITA 50, BUL 37, POR 36. Almost anybody could get up here, especially with a decent relay (you get 44 points for 20th in the relay so it's pretty important at this level).

At the lower end of division 2, the USA women are only carrying forward 66 points (45 fewer than anyone else) so will need some good results to avoid going down; again the relay will be important here. AUT, POL, GER, HUN and ESP are all possible candidates for the second relegation spot. For the men it's probably between GER, ITA, BLR and ESP unless someone higher has a blowout (or a mispunch) in the relay.

Haven't looked at the division 1/2 boundary yet.

As for start order, that's based on world ranking order (in reverse) but in groups (e.g. Group 1 is 10-best ranked, who start last but in random order).

Promotion/relegation rules: http://orienteering.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/08...

But the number of countries in each division seems to be missing..?

8 in division 1, 14 in division 2.

Do we get double points for running a junior in the sprint relay?

What is going on?!! All I've learnt is that we're running in the past (Czechoslovakia) and some of the women's controls are under cliffs so they should be careful.

I might ask for a refund!

Working OK for me if I ignore the bloke.

But who's where and how are they doing? They react to a screen change, there's no prediction or anticipation.

Bubo, is svt available as usual? Have you got a link?

SVT is blocked

Here comes Street

Use a proxy server to get an IP in Sweden.

There has clearly been no dialogue between the director and commentary, even if they were good at commentating, the pictures are incoherent.

Thierry not really doing huge damage yet

TGIF runs right to #4 and #7 while others all have run left. Hubmann gaining

Every now and then I see the little punch logo and a time appear on the GPS tracking when they are nowhere near a control on their course - maybe a control that is on the women's course ?

(Wait and see if they have a control in here:

"it's going to be a race between Hubman and Geurgiou"

*Lundanes and Bergman go quicker at #17

Is it finished? I went to work and now I can't access the Men's race?!
WTF?!!?

Found it through a different route. Don't take the link off your center before the race is done!

A lot of people running through things they should really know better than. Look at the damange Olav does by keeping things white on the way to 19, that basically puts him in the lead

And the Kyburz steals it by going through the white to 22

Perfect example - I'm at work so I can't watch the GPS too. Why aren't we watching these guys on GPS before they appear in the finish? I'd heard nothing about Kyburz since I got to work. And there he is, probably gold?!

@Becks: What route did you use? I can't find the Men's race at all.

Never mind...I guessed the id and found it.

I went through the links to the individual days from the program page. It says replay. Will look for the exact route.

Anyone who was watching GPS would have know. Bad commentary, bad editing, bad producing

Live blog > link to middle at the top of the page > link to tv on left of page

gotta have the GPS running on a different screen in sync mode and do your own commentary.

Big miss on the winning times.

But why did I bother? The commentary is horrible.

Yup! It's terrible!

Hammer - nice being a prof! I've got work to do ;)

That move on 22 by Kyburz was fantastic! Really interesting early race too, strange route from Thierry on the long leg.

Per F appears to be back for arena commentary - much better than previous days. I'm sorry you all had such bad experiences from home!

I could hear him the distance! If only he were on TV too!

For some reason it seemed much worse than the sprint commentary even though I think it's the same people.

It's the same people. I think the problem is that over a longer race, unless you have someone dedicated to the GPS as Nixon says, it's just impossible to come up with a narrative. I don't think they are being at all proactive in showing the coverage, they just seem to be reacting to what they see in front of them. They should be showing sync GPS from runners out there challenging the lead with people who've finished, going to TV controls just before them to watch them through and count down the seconds. They need to be watching at all points during the race, and picking up on people like Kyburz before they reach the run in.

Norway is still the web TV production I remember for doing a really magnificent job. I was hooked to the scree for long periods of time. If this current production isn't even interesting to orienteers, there's no point having this random Scottish chap on their talking a load of s***e to try to make it interesting to the (likely non-existent) general public. Makes us look like a joke. This production is a joke.

The arena team at JWOC did a really good job with this, and I imagine now Per is there the arena team are doing a great job in Sweden too. Are they even showing the same images? It would be interesting to know.

Well, enjoy womens course now with no commentary, just the wind blowing :)

I wonder if we can lobby to get the arena audio? I didn't even look to see if that was an option.

They should be showing sync GPS from runners out there challenging the lead with people who've finished, going to TV controls just before them to watch them through and count down the seconds. They need to be watching at all points during the race, and picking up on people like Kyburz before they reach the run in.

Sounds like the excellent Jukola commentary. Can be done apparently.

It absolutely can be done! And has been done many times before. It's insane that they're not getting it right for this.

Oh no. Sam goofed but appears to have figured it out.

Louise, Sam, Kate Morrison (NZ) all running together. Could be a fast train

Oops - Louise seems to have lost a bit of concentration and dropped a few seconds on the short section between 13 & 15. But still in touch as the three of them enter the final loop

Louise back into first (so far) at #20 but odd route to #21

The train finally splits up on the way to #21. Sam seems to have the best route - or the strongest legs. But Louise should be coming in close to first .... second (so far) it turns out


Half an hour until Emily starts - the final North American to start

Louise caught her 2 minute (Morrison) and 4 minute (Saeger) women at #9 (only 1.6km into the race)

Hah. The guy knows some flags. Well done guy.

I'm going to go out on a limb and predict that Louise will be second or third non-European. And top 25 is real possibility ...

Anyway, regardless - a great run by Louise!

Second non-European is a very bold call, considering she's already behind an Aussie with Emily left to run.
First non-European is so bold you could almost call it impossible.

;0
That's why I editted my post. But not fast enough ;-)

I'd make a really crap announcer !

Ah, you have changed your guess, that's fair.

EMILY

Emily Kemp takes the strong lead at #6. She had a small, small bobble at #4.

Yeah Emily

Emily looking good on TV

Is this going to be something very special??
Holy macaroni...

One minute ahead of maya alm ?!

Just came back to my computer.....oh my word! Can I watch?! Go Emily!

HOLY MACARONI!

Becks - Maja is still skipping ;-(

I know. He switched to belting, which I liked better!

Kemp! over 2 minutes ahead of Alm at #13.

Oh my word! What a lead!

Eeeeeeeeeee!

I am not doing any work for the next hour.

Pretending to be Canadian...

I'm on the edge of my seat.

GO EMily

I need to breathe. . .

Oh to hear Per as Emily goes through the arena...

HOW ARE THEY NOT SHOWING THIS?!?!

Wow, go Emily!!

And how did they not know she was coming?!

Emily changed her mind???

Emily going left to 19

Only four people can have a faster time to the first radio.
(though my commentary skills are obviously lousy and this could be wrong ;-)

She has the space...power down that track Emily!

Ida Bobach not at 6 yet?

Nordberg and Bobach aren't skipping very well.

Okay - so it could come down to loeg 19. Emily takes the high route - haven't seen that one before. Let's hope it is the winning choice

(only 3 now)

I can hardly stand it - this is so exciting

wow Tove.

Tove bobble

COME ON EMILY!!!! So close!

Bobach with big errors too.

Congrats to the commentary for having Emily from the last control...

Congrats Emily!!!

Not that I like to cheer against anyone, but I wouldn't mind seeing Tove go a little bit off course ;-)

La Petite Canadien, you make us so proud.

Wow Nice! Go Emily!

I like how you can watch Tove et al synched up with Emily and others, as Tove is running. Emily is just ahead of her at #9 now.

She eventually stood up, surrounded by cameras and people congratulating her, saw her brother Eric, and asked him how his race was. :)
Fingers crossed the other girls trip up... Just a bit ;)

Nooooo! Amazing last loop from Bagstevold.

fingers crossed for her! whatever happens she's done amazingly well - can imagine there are Canadians (and people all over the world) cheering her on!

Gemperle close

Awesome run by Emily!

Emily was still in first at control 20, but lost two places on the run-in. Drat.

Do the live stream announcers seriously not know who Tove is?

Gonna be 4th for Emily. The potatoe medal, as the Czech say ;) What an amazing performance! But oh so close, if she just didn't turn around on the trail on the last loop it would've been a medal.

Jeff did you see that? You DO jump off cliffs in this sport.

Well done Tove, and smashing job from Emily. So much more to come!

Yay, good runs all!
Shout out to Team USA, love you!!!

ok back to work....

Fantastic race by Emily! 4th place.

This is a great day in Canadian and North American orienteering. Emily Kemp in #1 spot for much of the race and still #2 spot at last TV control. Wow. Wish so much I could be there to see her and give her a huge hug. Well done, Emily. So exciting to follow your race. So proud and happy for you.

Holy Macaroni that was exciting! Podium finish for Emily.

Louise & Emily both had such great runs that they have both achieved pre-selection for WOC 2017 in the Middle! Top 40 is required.

We are all so excited for Emily! I haven't met anyone more deserving of her current trajectory to the top of the orienteering elite. So, so awesome.

Fantastic job, Emily!! Not just today but all the years you've spent earning your place among the top elites in the sport.

So here is a cool story I love and I hope my daughter doesn't mind me sharing here.

In 2008 my daughter and I decided to do some hiking and orienteering in the ALberta Rockies and foothills as a father and daughter family getaway. The O races were the barebones weekend and the organizers had brought out Emily Kemp from Ottawa to give a talk about the Junior World Champs. Emily did an awesome job with the talk and my daughter (sitting in the front row) soaked it all in. After the talk my daghter told me that she would like to do that race someday. Fast forward 8 years and Emma Waddington is on two relays teams with Emily Kemp at WOC this year. Emma is 6 years and 6 days younger than Emily and still a junior but totally got inspired by Emily so many years ago. This is a great example of why it is so important to have great role models interacting with the next generation of athletes in our sport.

Way to go! An inspiration.

interview/story with Kempster
http://orienteering.org/emily-kemp-its-hard-to-bel...

Hej Canada,

Why dont you bid/organise woc in a few year. Kemp as a world champion on home soil would inspire a lot of people and would certainly draw media attention.
+ Beeing world champion on home soil is the best thing ever i guess.

Would Europe be willing to give it up?

Do like Henry Kissinger, just call Europe and ask!

A JWOC outside Europe again would be nice too

Everything I've heard indicates the IOF would love to get a bid from outside Europe for WOC - in fact, part of the rationale for the split WOC was to open up possibilities for hosting an urban WOC in countries without suitable forest terrain (especially in Asia), but none have bid.

As I'm sure I've said here before, we had a look at the numbers for Australia and concluded that to make it happen we'd probably need something in the order of EUR 500,000 in external money (either government or corporate). The split WOC model is a bit less daunting but still a major financial challenge.

That seems about double what it cost in Scotland

Wow, 500.000 Euro is a lot of money. Could it be a possibility to organise WOC in 2 countries? e.g. Sprints in Seatle and forest in Vancouver? That could split costs over 2 countries.

Moot point now, as all WOCs until the forest/sprint split have been assigned.

500kEu external sounds about right to me. Scotland was able to cross-subidise and use economies of scale for staff, employees from the 6-days. I can't see 5000 people showing up for spectator races outside Europe.

Scotland would probably have more entries than, say, Australia, which would partly offset costs.

Hosting it in two countries might help split costs for the organisers but not for the competitors.

Great pic of Emily Kemp and Thierry captured at WOC middle awards ceremony #GoCanadaGo

https://twitter.com/mxdgo78/status/768493813815996...

Love that picture!