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Discussion: Orienteering Ontario Archives

in: Orienteering; General

Jan 26, 2017 10:38 PM # 
Klepperton:
Those in Ontario's orienteering community may or may not know that much of the contents of Orienteering Ontario's old office in Toronto is at my Dad's place in Campbellville.

I haven't begun to scratch the surface of sifting through it all. It's impressive in its girth...more daunting than anything.

Within it lies so many special nuggets of our sport's history in our province.

A few of the more golden nuggets are the regional scrapbooks of maps made over the years from all over the province. (Early 70's - around 1990).

I'm going to unearth a map every once in awhile on this thread so that people can reminisce/share tidbits about days/meets gone by...and brainstorm some future use.

Maybe every year we can vote on an old area to be remapped for the next year's provincial (or even national) championship...(if feasible). There are some beauties out there!!

I hope that those currently active in the orienteering/AR community in our province can rally around some these images.

To be blunt...

If you are a club in Ontario who is affiliated with any of these maps, it might be time to think about the feasibility of getting them digitized/remapped (I believe they all are hand drawn).

At the very least, I'm sure the thread will generate some discussion.

Also, I believe Anne Teutsch is compiling a historical archive of 50 years of orienteering in Canada. As a province, we have it covered!! If anyone would like to curate this, it would be much appreciated!!

In the meantime, 2 things:

1. If anyone feels I'm doing anything objectionable by posting these map images...let me know.

2. Help me figure out what to do with all the girth I haven't sifted through. It's important for our heritage. It should be treated appropriately.

Thanks!
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Jan 26, 2017 10:57 PM # 
Klepperton:
Steve Pearson, Ron Lowry, Ted De St. Croix 1976

Untitled
Jan 27, 2017 9:51 AM # 
gordhun:
Thank you for saving these archives. Yes, at least OOI should arrange to scan and save the maps and newsletters in digital form, jpegs better than PDFs for the maps.
Most of Orienteering Canada's old newsletters are digitally archived. It must have been a big job for Charm to arrange but she got it done.
As for areas to re-map Haliburton Scout Reserve and Dorset would be two at the top of my list.
Jan 27, 2017 2:48 PM # 
Hammer:
Thanks for doing this Mark. My parents put that map scrap book together.

My National Champs in (southern) Ontario with re-mapping vote:
sprint and sprint relay: University of Guelph
middle: Starkey Hills (Guelph)
long: Rocky Ridge Ranch (Milton)
Jan 27, 2017 2:57 PM # 
sberg:
How about the Sudbury maps around Laurentian University? Remember them as nice and technical terrain. Not used for > 20 years?
Jan 27, 2017 4:30 PM # 
JimBaker:
I've heard that Sudbury had great terrain. It'd be great to orienteer there someday.
Jan 27, 2017 5:26 PM # 
gordhun:
Funny thing about the Sudbury terrain. We went there for a Canadian Championships I think in the 1980s and the forest were great - very runnable.
We went back a few years later and the forest were quite a bit thicker. The difference? The first time we were following a catepellar infestation that had cleared away a large percentage of the leaves and udergrowth.
There is also the issue of tackling acid rain. Now that the nickel companies have cleaned up their acts trees and bushes are growing where 50 years ago they couldn't.
Jan 27, 2017 6:01 PM # 
Nev-Monster:
Anything around Peterborough? How about a future Ont Champs with Trent for the Sprint?

Also: Starkey Sucks. Only people who are excellent map/terrain readers do well on that map....
Jan 28, 2017 1:47 AM # 
gordhun:
Peterborough?
Back in the 1970s TdSC made a map of Burnham Park and a guy named Alan Brunger mapped an area just south and east of Trent. As I recall the contour lines were green.
Jan 28, 2017 2:30 PM # 
Klepperton:
From what I've seen, the most intriguing maps are around Peterborough/Hailburton/Kawarthas.

Gord: Hailburton Scout Reserve is a behemoth 1:20000 map, which can hold numerous national championships on it without duplicating terrain. It might be our Harriman. It looks quite technical, but I am unsure how runnable the forest is...(which has obviously changed 30-40 years later.) Any thoughts?

I will get up some images as soon as I can.

In the meantime, here are a couple which overlap around Laurentian University in Sudbury:

Denise Demonte, Ron Lowry 1983:

Untitled

Pat De St. Croix, Dick De St. Croix 1989:

Untitled

They really made 'em big back in the day, huh? All kinds of 1:15000 monster maps!

Also, here here to husband/wife mapping teams!

Here's one more.

Lake Laurentian

lakelaurentian

This one is east of the preceding maps. My dad has held cadet events here over the years. He says it's gorgeous, with endless terrain eastward.

I don't know who made this map. My dad says David Bondy updated it, but I imagine it came from an older base.

Point is, there's lots going on up there!
Jan 28, 2017 6:55 PM # 
Klepperton:
Here's one that seems to have been made for the Ontario Summer Games in Peterborough in 1980.

Peter Gagarin 1979:

Untitled

It's location:

https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Eels+Creek/@44.51...

Maybe PG has some thoughts on it???
Jan 28, 2017 7:57 PM # 
runit:
Wow some of these are beauties.

It would be amazing to see actual orienteering culture come back to S. Ontario, as unfortunately it's been on a steady decline after NAOC 06. It seems like clubs do have awesome maps, but they just rarely seem to use them - like TOC who keep re-using cringy park maps when they have so many awesome areas north of Toronto.

Why was the last time that we had something decent at Rocky/Hilton was when Nick put on the Ontario Long in 2012 before Naoc? Is it because the area is too green to be used now, as Hammer has told me many times? Then why spend resources on remapping something that's already a good map as is, yet isn't being used pretty much at all - arguably one of the best maps here. These days it takes character to get used to training there because of the vegetation, but even after you get over that, you realize Dundas Valley, Hilton/Rocky are way overrun and boring - the once giants. We need new quality maps - for orienteering. Doing a series of 2 day classics on weekends, or middle - chase-start weekends. It's really sad to see how the enthusiasm for the pure sport has fallen, but I hope it can restore.
Jan 28, 2017 8:02 PM # 
Klepperton:
My dad just mentioned it took 5 trips with 2 vans from Don Mills/Eglinton to Campbellville to empty the old OOI office.

...a little perspective on how much stuff we're talking about here.
Jan 29, 2017 6:52 AM # 
Klepperton:
Goran Ohlund, Gunnar Ohlund, Kjerstin Eriksson 1974:

Untitled

Imagine a modern day mapper got at this stunner.

It's location:

https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Haliburton+Scout+...
Jan 29, 2017 9:45 PM # 
Klepperton:
Goran Ohlund 1973
Ted De St. Croix, Dick De St. Croix 1977

Untitled

Another large intriguing area.

It's location:

https://www.google.ca/maps/place/Furnace+Falls,+ON...
Jan 30, 2017 4:40 AM # 
Nick:
impressive collection Mark !
Jan 30, 2017 1:36 PM # 
Hammer:
Fun facts:

-I took three hours on a M13-14 course at Haliburton Scout Reserve in my first year of O. I got off on a bearing and missed a trail and ran 1.5km off into the middle of Ontario wilderness. I wanted to quit the sport but I came 3rd of 3 and got a shiny medal and stuck with it.

-All OOA maps at that time were printed in Hamilton Ontario (Rapid Blue Print).

-Eels Creek was used for the Ontario Summer Games. Orienteering there wasn't a fun experience. I believe the map was only ever used once.

-OOA map making and the sport in general was highly government subsidized back then. Government money stopped (in Ontario) in the mid to late 90's.

-In the field 1km in on White Lake Road on the Beaver Meadows map are several cabins. These were owned by Bjorn Kjellstrom and Silva Canada and available to rent for XC skiing. My club would spend a winter weekend there every year. The main Silva house/cottage was a few km away towards Kinmount.
Jan 30, 2017 5:20 PM # 
JimBaker:
I had a similar experience on a Yellow course at that age, or maybe a tad younger. Is getting massively lost on a course at a young age a rite of passage in orienteering?
Jan 31, 2017 3:10 AM # 
J$:
Keep posting, these are really neat. What Northern ontario maps are there? Where I grew up (Thunder Bay), I can only recall 2. If you think forests are horrible and thick wher you are, they are nothing like you will find around there, lol.

The Laurentian U ones bring back a lot of memories for me from going to school there and being on the ski team (I got copies of the maps from Ken Sidney). The south end of the "Beaton Trail" map is unfortunately no longer due to a ring road taking out most of it. Like someone mentioned, vegetation in that area has in some areas been restored remarkably well following the industrial damage.
Jan 31, 2017 7:24 AM # 
gordhun:
J$ There is at least one surviving orienteering map from 1970's Thunder Bay - It is called Centennial Park. It still gets some use.
Efforts are under way to re- map and expand Centennial as well as the Boulevard Lake area, Old Ft William, Lakehead University and a number of parks and school grounds in the city.
Things look promising for the future for orienteering in Thunder Bay. E-mail me if you are interested in helping.
Jan 31, 2017 9:59 AM # 
Hammer:
Sudbury forests are definitely getting thicker but Laurentian University would probably still be the best campus in Canada where you can have S,M, and L races all finish on the same track right in the middle for the terrain/forest. Great venue - but sadly there isn't a club in Sudbury anymore.
Jan 31, 2017 2:03 PM # 
Nev-Monster:
Gord: J$ (new member of OOC) is actually from TBay and was coached by one Pauli Kaki in ski racing.
Lakehead would be a fun sprint map for sure.
Jan 31, 2017 2:09 PM # 
gordhun:
Funny coincidence. Just two minutes ago I scanned a photo of Pauli competing at an event in 1970. He was the second Canadian Orienteering Men's elite champion (1969).
Jan 31, 2017 4:42 PM # 
bubo:
I remember many of the maps mentioned here from my visits to Canada in the 70-ies and 80-ies.
I took part in the Ontario Champs at Haliburton Scout Reserve in 1975 but that may be the only one of the maps mentioned so far that I´ve actually competed on.

...and Pauli Kaki was 3rd behind Ron Lowry and Ted de St.Croix at the COC´s in Dundas Valley that same year...
Jan 31, 2017 6:42 PM # 
gordhun:
Right you are Bubo.
By the way that year, 1975, the Toronto Globe& Mail, Canada's national newspaper,
carried major photo stories on both the Ontario Champs and the Canadians. I thought we had arrived big time in the media's attention. I still have the clippings dressing up my map books at home.
Jan 31, 2017 9:48 PM # 
Klepperton:
For J$...

Ted De St. Croix, 1980/1981

Untitled

Canada's southernmost map.

Megan Piercey, Leigh Bailey 1981

Untitled

...I heard that Bob Warbler, Tom Vireo, and Joe Bunting were looking for some real estate.
Jan 31, 2017 10:00 PM # 
gordhun:
Sorry to quibble but the Lakehead U map is at least Ontario's second most northern orienteering map. The map of Centennial Park also in Thunder Bay and also apparently made for an Ontario Summer Games is of terrain north of thre city and the university. Given that it has not been updated in at least 35 -40 years it is also probably Canada's oldest orienteering map still in use.
Jan 31, 2017 10:22 PM # 
Klepperton:
No worries Gord...I wasn't aware.
Jan 31, 2017 11:33 PM # 
gordhun:
If you would like to have a copy of the Centennial Park map for the collection I'd be glad to forward it.
Feb 1, 2017 1:40 PM # 
Klepperton:
For now, I think it's ok. Thanks though Gord.

As I mentioned before, there is SO much stuff I haven't even laid eyes on yet...that map will probably turn up.

It's great that things are happening up there! My dad has mentioned that there is a demand for maps for cadets all across northern Ontario.
Feb 1, 2017 3:26 PM # 
J$:
When I last lived in Tbay, my house was approximately in the middle of the giant swamp in the northern part of the Lakehead University map, lol.

I don't live there anymore, but visit regularly. Please do email me any details about new orienteering activities, as I'd be glad to help if i can.
Feb 1, 2017 6:55 PM # 
Klepperton:
A few more northern Ontario:

Sudbury:

Chrismar 1990

Untitled

North Bay:

Ted De St. Croix 1977

Untitled

Sault Ste. Marie:

Ted De St. Croix, Ron Lowry 1977

Untitled
Feb 1, 2017 6:58 PM # 
Klepperton:
Gord,

Is this what you meant by Dorset?

Ted De St. Croix 1980/1981

Untitled
Feb 1, 2017 7:04 PM # 
Nev-Monster:
There actually was an Orienteering event in Sault Ste. Marie last weekend!

I remember the last Ont Champs at the Leslie Frost Centre in which the map corrections consisted of someone colouring in the white with a green marker and then saying the green wasn't too bad.

The Nipissing U ski coach would totally introduce O to his team if that map could be updated.
Feb 1, 2017 8:08 PM # 
Hammer:
We need an Ontario University Cup for orienteering.

Frost Center is closed now but another example of an Ontario wilderness map. My best memory of that map was beating a future Olympian in the Ontario Champs.

McFarlane Lake was the best of all Sudbury terrains but the worst map. It borders the Beaton Trail map in the east north east portion of the map.
Feb 1, 2017 10:14 PM # 
rlindzon:
Even though the Frost Centre is now closed, the local municipality continues to maintain the trail system, including excellent classical cross country ski trails (and with a building with limited facilities across the road from the start of the ski trails). I see the municipality still calls the map Frost Centre Hiking Trails: http://www.algonquinhighlands.ca/deptdocs/Frost_Ce...
Feb 2, 2017 10:14 AM # 
Klepperton:
Re: Sudbury

Apparently, the Capreol Cross Country Ski Trails are a nice venue as well.

Re: The Soo

Nev, who put on the event?...and where?

Re: Ontario University

Will have to be a slow build, but a great idea.

The obvious question:

Where is the pool of university orienteers?...(other than Emma and Ottawa lads)
Feb 2, 2017 1:38 PM # 
Nev-Monster:
The Soo: was put on by Lawrence Foster, as part of the Soo Finish Ski Club winter fest. Not sure where.
Feb 5, 2017 1:42 PM # 
backwoods:
Thanks Mark...it was fun looking and recognizing many maps from my childhood!!
Feb 5, 2017 8:14 PM # 
Klepperton:
Ted De St. Croix, 1980

Untitled

Anyone know where this map is located?

It looks like Durham Region, around Dagmar/Uxbridge perhaps?
Feb 5, 2017 9:32 PM # 
Hammer:
Good guess Mark! The western edge of the map is LakeRidge Road so the map is adjacent to the ski hill. That yellow area in the south is now a golf course.

Walker's Forest, Uxbridge, Glen Major, Dagmar, Pleasure Valley and this map all border each other. Fantastic area for an adventure run or MTBO.
Feb 5, 2017 9:50 PM # 
Klepperton:
Gill Bailey, Leigh Bailey 1980

Untitled

Gill Bailey, Leigh Bailey 1978

Untitled

Gill Bailey, Leigh Bailey 1981

Untitled

Unknown mapper 1987

Untitled

I think an annual Adventure Race, Hammer!

Huge area.

I don't have Walker's Woods. I believe that's new-ish, no? (or unmapped)
Feb 5, 2017 11:37 PM # 
JimBaker:
Pleasure Valley, a nice name for a park (and map).
Feb 8, 2017 7:19 PM # 
Klepperton:
Toby Stenbeck, Rebecca Ryland 1984/1985

Untitled

Much of the southwest corner is now a golf course, and I believe a real estate developer owns most of the west side. There still might be some areas to salvage.

Rough open is a lot more overgrown these days, which makes it a better challenge.

A beauty.
Feb 8, 2017 8:24 PM # 
Hammer:
Arkell Hills is one of Canada's best orienteering terrains. Ever. Sadly the annual training camps turned to rogue training and then to no access at all. Pity. I'll never forget the ultra long race that was on Corwhin, Arkell and Starkey. Awesomeness.

I miss orienteering at Arkell. But we have a band from Hamilton that is representin'



Keep posting these Mark. We were talking about the great memories from this thread at the DontGetLost board meeting last night.
Feb 10, 2017 6:04 AM # 
ShadowCaster:
This is so fun to look at all these memories. I wish AP had a comment/reply feature to various comments as I so yearn to post quips in the various items! ...Sudbury, my first "contemporary" COCs....great MikeWaddington maps....Pleasure Valley! (I want to go there, best O-map name ever?)...and so on.
Feb 10, 2017 9:25 PM # 
Klepperton:
The aforementioned...

Toby Stenbeck, Rick Krogsrud, Rebecca Ryland 1984/1985

Untitled

Olaf Hansson, Leigh Bailey 1984/1985

Untitled

The Guelph Gators, (now UKR Gators) will be hosting an O-Cup race on Sunday February 26th on a 1:7500 map of a portion of the northeast part of this map. (pretty much the middle of the map). It's still as enchanting as ever in there...for those who know it.

See soon on AP, OOA website, and TOC website for link and registration! Hoping this evening.

Control picking long-ish middle mania!! 4.7 - 7.8 km, (depending on your handicap).

Chili and vegan soup after the event!

Free vintage Guelph Gators orienteering map!

Free loaf of bread!

Come and get it!
Feb 10, 2017 10:01 PM # 
igor_:
re: 2/26 event -- why don't they add an Attackpoint event.
Feb 10, 2017 10:12 PM # 
Klepperton:
It will be added. We're waiting for a link to registration to be put up.
Feb 10, 2017 10:43 PM # 
igor_:
Why not add it without the link to registration so that people can add it to their calendars.
Feb 11, 2017 8:19 AM # 
Klepperton:
Starkey Hills North O Cup #5 has been added as an event to AP.

2 more old Guelph Gators' Maps:

Juri Peepre, Sass Peepre 1974

Untitled

Good old Speyside. Anyone compete on this one?

Kiddie corner from the quarry ravaged Scotch Block map. I believe a quarry encroaches some of the north end, not sure how much.

AND...

Ted De St. Croix 1980, Olaf Hansson 1984, Dick De St. Croix 1985

Untitled

Now a Stars map. Recently remapped.

Anyone compete (or know of anyone who competed), at 'The First Masters Games' in 1985?
Feb 11, 2017 12:01 PM # 
Hammer:
Speyside was my first race by myself. I think the entire course i did (in the north) is now part of a quarry.

Oh and I made the Pleasure Valley map. Shitty base map. Hardest and likely worst fieldwork I ever did.

I vetted World Masters Games courses at Soggy Highlands and Starkey. The former was ugly summer thickness. The latter was super fast awesomeness.
Feb 11, 2017 12:19 PM # 
gordhun:
I competed at Speyside in '74. The Guelph Spring Festival O was a big deal them, probably on par with the Flying Pig today.
The US Marine team was there and they were great rivals for us Canadians coming off a winter hiatus.
I ran hard and knew I was doing well catching up to guys who had started before me. The Blue course was a 'split map' out and back with a water stop at the map exchange. All went well at the exchange at the small knoll, had a drink of water, picked up my new map and was gone. It was not until I finished trhat I was told that there was a control about 100 meters from the knoll, also on a knoll where I was supposed to punch and then follow the ribbons to the map exchange. That was my first and one of my very few DQs in my orienteering life.
Well I sent a thank you note to Sass Peepre for the wonderful event and he wrote back that he was impressed that I wasn't writing to complain about being DQed, a thought that had never occurred to me but I guess it does to some.
PA I also competed in the 1985 WMG and every other WMG up to 2009.
Feb 11, 2017 1:51 PM # 
Klepperton:
Continuing with GGO:

Ted De St. Croix, Mark Smith 1981

Untitled

One of the many Ontario post secondary campuses which haven't been mapped (yet) to current IOF sprint standards.

AND...

Robert Wagner, Megan Piercey 1982

Untitled

Not sure if this was even a GGO map to begin with...

Now two maps.

Dryden Tract in the north (Gators).

Sudden Tract in the south (Stars).

Just outside Cambridge. As nice as it looks!
Feb 11, 2017 2:20 PM # 
Klepperton:
Question:

Where are Robert Wagner/Megan Piercey, Ron Lowry/Denise Demonte, Gill/Leigh Bailey these days?

I have never met them...(started O in 1992).
Feb 11, 2017 8:13 PM # 
bchubb:
Gillian and Leigh live in Victoria BC and are still active members of Vic-O.

Thanks for posting the 1985 World Master Games maps. Mine inadvertently went out with the trash at a Blue Lake Clinc a year or two later. I participated, as did Marg Ellis (I believe I was was billeted at their place.) As I recall, Hammer would have been vetting because younger orienteers did much of the organizing so that most those who were eligible to compete were able to do so.
Feb 11, 2017 9:28 PM # 
Hammer:
Yup I vetted at Saugeen (aka Soggy Highlands) that was buggy and thick. I also vetted M35 course at Starkey which was fast, open, technical and awesome. I recall wondering why all the WMG races weren't just held in Guelph.

Ron (my first coach) and Denise moved from Hamilton to Silver Star / Vernon, BC in early 90's or late 80's. Don't think they have orienteered since.
Feb 11, 2017 9:59 PM # 
runit:
Walker Woods! Absolutely love this area. Very fast some places even in the summer. Look far - full speed. Map is still very decent, although would be cool to get it updated.

Feb 12, 2017 2:46 AM # 
Klepperton:
Surprised I've never seen that one Serge!
Feb 12, 2017 11:58 AM # 
fletch:
I wonder how many of the late 70's maps my parents ran on. Myst remember to ask them next time I see them. For that matter, I wonder how many of yhem I might have been carried around!
Feb 12, 2017 5:14 PM # 
gordhun:
I have never been to Walker wooods but from the map it looks as if it is the best bike-O and ski-O area in Ontario. Anyone interested?
Feb 12, 2017 5:27 PM # 
runit:
There are certainly bikers there every time I've gone, so I'm sure different trail patterns/new trails as well. The terrain is just so beautiful it's easy to ignore those (the trails. the bikers are friendly) :)
Feb 12, 2017 8:45 PM # 
Klepperton:
Ted De St. Croix 1980, Torbjorn Stenbeck 1984, Mike Waddington, Leigh Bailey 1989

Untitled

1989 edition of another great ski/MTB-o area.

Recently used for the Stars Winter Adventure Race, (snowshoe only this year).

Sounded like they used some terrain on the west side of Airport Road, (not pictured)...would love to see it!

AND...

Megan Piercey 1981

Untitled

Old edition of map used for today's O Cup race hosted by UKR.

Updated in 2016 by Igor Palagnyuk
Feb 12, 2017 9:04 PM # 
Klepperton:
3 more northern southern Ontario maps:

Kawarthas:

N. Dunford, F. Durante 1973

Untitled

North Muskoka:

Anders Juhlin, Bryan Chubb 1986

Untitled

bchubb: Have you done any other Ontario maps? Fieldwork or drawing?

South of North Bay:

Mark Smith 1981

Untitled

Map name definitely not as sweet sounding as Pleasure Valley.
Feb 12, 2017 9:23 PM # 
J$:
Lol only to someone from Toronto are those Northern Ontario
Feb 12, 2017 9:28 PM # 
Klepperton:
Ha!

It has been edited... ;)
Feb 16, 2017 8:26 PM # 
RipkinRacing:
Klepperton,

Those Kawartha area maps (Eels Creek, Buckhorn) are fantastic! Wish I had that resource the last 3 years when I ran an O-club out of Trent U in Peterborough. Hammer had sent me some neat old maps of the Trent U campus when I was creating a new one. A lot has changed there!

There was an O-race in the Soo??? I had not heard of this, who put it on?? I was toying with the idea of mapping the Hiawatha area for a race, but that Fort Creek map is a Gem!
I will test it out in GPS Orienteering with a virtual course!
Feb 16, 2017 9:01 PM # 
Nev-Monster:
Brad: I'm pretty sure it was Lawrence Foster who organized it as part of the loppet weekend.
Hammer will know, but I think there was an ancient map of Hiawatha at one time.
Feb 16, 2017 9:29 PM # 
Klepperton:
Cool man.

Do you have an idea where the Buckhorn one is?

Couldn't figure it out...
Feb 16, 2017 10:39 PM # 
Hammer:
@Nev: Hammer doesn't know.

But check out Brad's map.

http://trentar.wixsite.com/home/maps
Feb 17, 2017 12:52 AM # 
RipkinRacing:
Ah thanks Mike! By linking you reminded me to add the updated base map! Up now!

Thanks Nev! I'll contact him and see what's up. I'd like to get some Orienteering off the ground in the Soo. If he has something going perhaps it could benefit from added awareness and communication. Too my knowledge there is a small but strong base of AR/O peeps here!
Feb 17, 2017 1:05 AM # 
RipkinRacing:
The Buckhorn Wilderness Centre was (is??) Trent land and is just south of Kawartha Highlands Signature Site Provincial Park



Wish I was still in the Patch to verify
Feb 17, 2017 3:01 AM # 
JimBaker:
There are an awful lot of orienteering maps in North America, as this thread shows, though some may be in need of an update.

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